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azadi

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A restoration of the Hashemite monarchy of Iraq is a bad idea, because a monarch must be an unifying national symbol. A Hashemite King of Iraq can't be a unifying national symbol, because he won't represent Kurds and Shia Arabs. Most Kurds will be strongly opposed to a Hashemite restoration in Iraq, because the President of Iraq is a Kurd, and the Hashemite kings of Iraq oppressed the Kurds. The President of Iraq is a figurehead, but he symbolizes the Kurds not being oppressed by Arab Iraqis. I personally want the head of state of Iraq to be a Kurd, as long as Kurdistan is part of Iraq. I admire Jalal Talabani, the first President of Iraq after the overthrow of Saddam. Jalal Talabani was the leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, which is a secularist social democratic party, which supports Kurdish independence from Iraq, and which was pro-Soviet during the Cold War. The Shia Arabs will also be opposed to a restoration of the Hashemite monarchy of Iraq, because the Hashemites are Sunni. The Shia Arabs form a majority of the Iraqis. 
MatthewJTaylor

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Oposing a King because he isn't the same race as you?

Thats the sort of ultranationalist feeling that destroyed the kingdoms of Europe.


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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor

Oposing a King because he isn't the same race as you?

Thats the sort of ultranationalist feeling that destroyed the kingdoms of Europe.


I don't support racial purity. I want a foreign prince to be elected Shah of Kurdistan, but he must marry a Kurdish woman. I want Kurdistan to be a republic, if no foreign prince marries a Kurdish woman. Do you know, whether any European or Arab prince has had a Kurdish girlfriend?
I'm not opposed to restoration of the Hashemite monarchy of Iraq, because the Hashemites are Arabs. I'm opposed to restoration of the Hashemite monarchy of Iraq, because the Hashemite kings of Iraq oppressed the Kurds. 
A king must be a unifying national symbol. A Sunni Arab king will never be acceptable to Kurds and Shia Arabs. If Kurdistan obtains independence from Iraq, Iraq ought to elect a Shia Arab King of Iraq, because the majority of the Iraqis are Shia Arabs. Muqtada al-Sadr, who is a prominent Shia Arab politician in Iraq, belongs to a family of distinguished Islamic scholars. Muqtada al-Sadr is a descendant of Prophet Muhammad. Muqtada al-Sadr is an Iraqi nationalist, who is opposed to Iranian influence in Iraq. Muqtada al-Sadr will be an excellent King of Iraq.
Windemere

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He does indeed come from a prominent Shiite Arab family. But he's been married since 1994, and has no children. That would still be appropriate, but it would help if he had a designated successor. The present King of Cambodia is unmarried with no children, as is the Sultan of Oman. To the best of my knowledge, neither has a designated successor, although both are respected and competent monarchs. But they both come from dynasties that have long reigned in their nations, and the royal families are well-fortified.

But Muqtada al Sadr appears to be a religious as well as political leader. Would he be acceptable to the Sunnis, and to the Kurds ?

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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windemere
He does indeed come from a prominent Shiite Arab family. But he's been married since 1994, and has no children. That would still be appropriate, but it would help if he had a designated successor. The present King of Cambodia is unmarried with no children, as is the Sultan of Oman. To the best of my knowledge, neither has a designated successor, although both are respected and competent monarchs. But they both come from dynasties that have long reigned in their nations, and the royal families are well-fortified.

But Muqtada al Sadr appears to be a religious as well as political leader. Would he be acceptable to the Sunnis, and to the Kurds ?

I want Iraq to remain a republic, as long as Kurdistan is part of Iraq, because the President of Iraq, who is a figurehead, must be a Kurd. The Kurds losing the Iraqi presidency is unacceptable to most Kurds, because a Kurd being the President of Iraq symbolizes, that we are no longer oppressed by the Iraqi government.
Muqtada al-Sadr may be acceptable to Sunni Arabs, because he is an Iraqi nationalist, who is opposed to religious sectarianism.
azadi

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The Hashemites are overrated by the members of this forum. The Hashemites have been decent kings of Jordan, but the Hashemite kings of Iraq were bad kings, except Faisal II, the last Hashemite King of Iraq, who was a decent young man. But Faisal II wasn't able to stand up to Crown Prince Abd al-Ilah and Prime Minister Nuri al-Said, who were lackeys of British imperialism. Monarchism is insignificant in Iraq. Some members of the forum claim, that USA prevented restoration of the Hashemite monarchy of Iraq. That's wrong. It's true, that USA prevented the restoration of the Afghan monarchy, because the Afghans actually wanted to restore the monarchy, but most Iraqis wanted Iraq to be a republic during the Iraq War.
Why are the Hashemites the preferred Middle Eastern royal dynasty of most members of this forum? Is it because of Lawrence of Arabia? The Hashemite King of Jordan is a decent king, but the King of Morocco, the Sultan of Oman, the Emir of Kuwait and the Emirs of the UAE are decent monarchs too. The Pahlavis and the Osmanoglus are my preferred Middle Eastern royal dynasties.
InVinoVeritas

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Reply with quote  #7 
I partly understand azadi's sentiment. I wouldn't want a Swede (even less a Russian) to rule my country. But I also don't see why past mistakes should prevent restoration in Iraq today.
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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
I partly understand azadi's sentiment. I wouldn't want a Swede (even less a Russian) to rule my country. But I also don't see why past mistakes should prevent restoration in Iraq today.

I don't claim, that past mistakes should prevent a restoration of the monarchy. I'm merely explaining, why the vast majority of Iraqi Kurds are opposed to a restoration of the Hashemite monarchy of Iraq. The Kurds remember the Hashemite kings of Iraq as oppressors. Despite being a monarchist, supporting the restoration of the Hashemite monarchy of Iraq, which oppressed us, makes no sense to me. A monarch must be a unifying national symbol. A democratically elected president is better than a king, who isn't an unifying national symbol. I'm a monarchist, because a king is a unifying national symbol, who embodies the history and traditions of his nation and is a non-partisan head of state. 
I'm not opposed to a restoration of the Hashemite monarchy in Iraq, if Kurdistan obtains independence from Iraq, but it's unlikely to happen, because the majority of the Arab Iraqis are Shia Muslims, while the Hashemites are Sunni Muslims.
I'm not opposed to a foreign prince becoming Shah of Kurdistan, if he marries a Kurdish woman.
ROO86

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So the Sunni’s and Shia’s are forced to accept a Kurdish president of Iraq but Kurds can’t accept either of those as President or King?

How is a Kurdish president any more unifying to the Sunni/Shia than a Hashemite King?
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROO86
So the Sunni’s and Shia’s are forced to accept a Kurdish president of Iraq but Kurds can’t accept either of those as President or King?

How is a Kurdish president any more unifying to the Sunni/Shia than a Hashemite King?

I'm a Kurd. I support the interests of my own people. If the Arab Iraqis don't want a Kurd to be their head of state, they can grant us independence. 
ROO86

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I'm a Kurd. I support the interests of my own people. If the Arab Iraqis don't want a Kurd to be their head of state, they can grant us independence. 


So everyone else can like it or lump it but if the shoe was on the other foot then the country must be destroyed to serve your needs?

And we wonder why Iraq is a failed state.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROO86


So everyone else can like it or lump it but if the shoe was on the other foot then the country must be destroyed to serve your needs?

And we wonder why Iraq is a failed state.

I'm not opposed to a Hashemite restoration in Iraq, solely because the Hashemites are Arabs. I'm opposed to a Hashemite restoration in Iraq, because the Hashemite kings of Iraq oppressed the Kurds. I support Kurdish independence from Iraq, despite a Kurd being President of Iraq, but I want a Kurd to be President of Iraq, as long as Kurdistan is part of Iraq. The Kurds are hardly oppressing Arab Iraqis. The President of Iraq is a figurehead, and the Prime Minister of Iraq is a Shia Arab. The Kurds and the Arab Iraqis ought to share power in Iraq, as long as Kurdistan is part of Iraq.
I want independent Kurdistan to be a republic, unless a foreign prince marries a Kurdish woman and adopts Kurdish culture. I'm a nationalist monarchist. Monarchies make no sense to me, if they aren't connected to nationalism. A monarch ought to embody the history and traditions of his or her nation. I'm a monarchist, because a monarch can be a unifying national symbol and a non-partisan head of state.
MatthewJTaylor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I'm not opposed to a Hashemite restoration in Iraq, solely because the Hashemites are Arabs. I'm opposed to a Hashemite restoration in Iraq, because the Hashemite kings of Iraq oppressed the Kurds. I support Kurdish independence from Iraq, despite a Kurd being President of Iraq, but I want a Kurd to be President of Iraq, as long as Kurdistan is part of Iraq. The Kurds are hardly oppressing Arab Iraqis. The President of Iraq is a figurehead, and the Prime Minister of Iraq is a Shia Arab. The Kurds and the Arab Iraqis ought to share power in Iraq, as long as Kurdistan is part of Iraq.
I want independent Kurdistan to be a republic, unless a foreign prince marries a Kurdish woman and adopts Kurdish culture. I'm a nationalist monarchist. Monarchies make no sense to me, if they aren't connected to nationalism. A monarch ought to embody the history and traditions of his or her nation. I'm a monarchist, because a monarch can be a unifying national symbol and a non-partisan head of state.


So you're a nationalist who likes the monarchist aesthetic

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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor


So you're a nationalist who likes the monarchist aesthetic

I don't want to be ruled by a king, who doesn't share my national identity. It's not about racism. I'm not opposed to being ruled by a king of foreign descent, who shares my national identity. If an Arab prince marries a Kurdish woman and learns the Kurdish language, I will support him being elected Shah of Kurdistan.
Claiming, that I'm not a real monarchist, because I'm a nationalist, is unfair. Monarchism is closely tied to nationalism in most current monarchies. It's understandable, that you as a Scottish unionist, who is loyal to the British monarchy, are opposed to nationalism, but Great Britain is one of the last remaining multinational monarchies in the world. 
Ethiomonarchist

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The present King of Cambodia is unmarried with no children, as is the Sultan of Oman. To the best of my knowledge, neither has a designated successor, although both are respected and competent monarchs.


The Constitution of the Kingdom of Cambodia makes the lack of children by the reigning monarch a non-issue.  The succession is determined by the Crown Council which, upon the death of the King, meets and selects a member of either the Norodom or Sisowath royal families to sit on the throne.  There is no shortage of Princes of either family.  Oman is a bit of a problem yes...


Quote:
So the Sunni’s and Shia’s are forced to accept a Kurdish president of Iraq but Kurds can’t accept either of those as President or King?

How is a Kurdish president any more unifying to the Sunni/Shia than a Hashemite King?


Very good point.  Requiring the reigning monarch be a member of every ethnic group or every religion in a country is ethnicism and not really compatible with the concept of monarchy.  That would rule out many existing monarchies.  Just a bad idea all around.  Importing a completely foreign royal makes even less sense and the instances where it has happened have not generally been very successful at all.

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