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Sujit

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers

Ponocrates,

I didn't go for the whole thing because of conflicts with reigning sovereigns. (England as part the UK, Spain, Monaco, Liechteinstien, etc).

NeasOic

Maybe the 'left whigs' with the demoncrates as 'radical left whigs'.



I wold rather say modern right whigs and modern far right whigs
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #32 
Baron, you could still have monarchies under the umbrella of an empire, but point taken.
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Tolgron

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Reply with quote  #33 

Probably China, actually. Thinking about how much influence that country has in the region, it could probably have a knock on effect for other former monarchies in the area, such as Vietnam, the Koreas, Mongolia, Laos and maybe even countries further afield. Plus it would see the reversal of what proved to be highly corrosive and very un-Chinese socio-political philosophies.

Olwe

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Reply with quote  #34 
Since the German-speaking lands are what I know best, I would like to see Germania pre-Bismark. What a crazy-quilt that was! But that's when humanity is at its best -- strong local and regional differentiation.
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18th_Brumaire

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Reply with quote  #35 
I suppose the monarchy I'd most like to see restored would be the Brazilian, probably out of nothing but intense admiration for the last emperor. Serbia and Montenegro, while not being particularly close to my heart, would both make me very happy should either one restore its monarchy - as seems at least remotely possible.
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PatrickGuinness

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
It is 721 years since a King of Jerusalem actually ruled any part of the territory of the kingdom, so I agree that that one might be a little late for restoration. Prince Charles-Antoine is heir to the Brienne claim, also to half of the Cypriot claim which I regard as the stronger, since it derives from kings who ruled later than those the Brienne claim comes from. The other half is held by one Patrick Guinness; I suppose one and a half trumps half, so Charles-Antoine can reasonably be regarded as heir of line....


I happen to be this Patrick Guinness, and realise that there were a lot of claimants over the centuries, and at least 7 decent-sounding claims today. 

I visited my predecessor Elisabeth in Stuttgart in the 1990s to copy her wonderful von Urach family photographs c1900, and she explained about the claim and its nature. It had never been mentioned to me before and came as rather a surprise.

The ancestry on this lineage were mostly French nobles, and, not wanting to upstage anyone in the French court, never mind their king, they described themselves continually as "Héritier de Savoie" - heir of Savoy in English.

The heiress was Marie who died in 1503. The point is made widely that other daughter(s) may have been older than Marie, but then the question remains, why would her descent bother to claim to be Héritier de Savoie if they weren't? The nobility in 1500s France were fussy about that sort of detail.

So does that make me King of Jerusalem since 1999? Not really, as there are so many other claims, and who could arbitrate? But every time I receive a letter addressed to the Héritier de Savoie I'll open it. 




Peter

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Reply with quote  #37 
Thank you for your informative and interesting post. It is nice also to hear from a 'claimant'! For your possible interest, here and here are two earlier threads discussing the question, well mainly they are me pontificating on it. In one I answered from memory and got things wrong, but corrected myself later. 
HeirOfWallachia

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Reply with quote  #38 
I would like to see a monarchy restored in any country that is well known, I think that would send a pretty strong message to the world.
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PatrickGuinness

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Thank you for your informative and interesting post. It is nice also to hear from a 'claimant'! For your possible interest, here and here are two earlier threads discussing the question, well mainly they are me pontificating on it. In one I answered from memory and got things wrong, but corrected myself later. 


Preferable if an ancestor of the Ligne-La Trémoïlle claimant had duelled with one of mine to sort it out! I heard about it also from a journalist writing about Jerusalem and an American, William Reitwiesner (now dead?) who was in touch. Mr Reitweisner linked me distantly to Brooke Shields and the Marquis de Sade which, I'm ashamed to say, I found much more interesting at the time than Jerusalem.

My own preference for a restored royalty would be Georgia's Prince David Bagration, who went to the trouble of marrying into a rival claimant cousin's family. I think it could make a difference to such a newly-independent state; "soft power" in today's jargon. 
Peter

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Reply with quote  #40 
Brooke Shields is descended from the Torlonia family, prominent members of the Papal nobility if of fairly recent vintage, and through them has some Savoy-Carignano blood. Perhaps that is where the link arises, or it could be by some other route. Georgia, like Serbia, Montenegro, Albania and to a lesser extent Portugal, seems a not unreasonable possibility for restoration but somehow nothing ever seems to eventuate. Certainly it is one of the most romantic as well as realistic chances, and I agree a restoration would greatly benefit the Georgian people. But then I tend to think that of any country.

It's not really important to settle the question, I would suggest. As Cyprus, Jerusalem and Armenia are not in any sense realistic possibilities for restoration, it does no harm to share the honour. The thing about not knowing which daughter was the eldest is that it is not at all implausible for it to be so. You can get quite prominent rulers, admittedly usually from somewhat earlier times, where we don't know for sure how many children they had, let alone the birth order. It is less likely with sons, but as Savoy operated strict agnatic succession it is not surprising that the existence but not the relative ages of daughters is known, since succession-wise it didn't matter, an older daughter was as ineligible as a younger. Having the representation is as I say an honour, and I don't see it as diminished by being shared.
HRH_Jonathan

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Reply with quote  #41 
My first choice for a monarchy to restore would be Japan, because I believe that the Japanese may actually be the people suffering most from the destruction of their monarchy. Their entire culture has received a massive, damaging shock with catastrophic effects. With their rapidly plunging birth rate, completely lost youth, and dissonance from integration of Western thought into things that should be purely Eastern, it is clear that they need some sort of revitalizing force. The restoration of their monarchy might just be that force.

My second choice would be Russia, for reasons already listed by others and because I similarly think that they need to get their society back on the track it should be. However, I would not support the Romanovs. Given the option, I would make Putin Czar and establish a non-hereditary system of succession identical to that of the Polish Commonwealth in its elective days. History shows that whenever the ruler of Russia isn't very, very strong, they kill him and replace him with someone else. It seems that it is in the national spirit of Russia to think of a man that any other country would consider a tyrant as a properly prudent leader. Putin may not be the best choice for the job, but it would probably be better than restoring the hold imperial house, I think.

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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
My first choice for a monarchy to restore would be Japan, because I believe that the Japanese may actually be the people suffering most from the destruction of their monarchy. Their entire culture has received a massive, damaging shock with catastrophic effects. With their rapidly plunging birth rate, completely lost youth, and dissonance from integration of Western thought into things that should be purely Eastern, it is clear that they need some sort of revitalizing force. The restoration of their monarchy might just be that force.



The only problem with that is that the Japanese monarchy is still reigning.

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HRH_Jonathan

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Reply with quote  #43 
Yes, but they have no power. They've been reduced to figureheads (not for the first time in their history). I'd be willing to bet that putting them back in charge would do some good for their country.
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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #44 

I strongly support the restoration of the Romanovs and hereditary monarchy in general.  I'm not interested in elective monarchy unless we're going to restore the Holy Roman Empire (whose Electors were themselves hereditary).  Elections for head of state are what I want to get away from.  Long live Empress Maria Vladimirovna!

I believe Poland took a step in the right direction with the restoration of hereditary monarchy in 1791 in the House of Wettin and it's a shame they were not able to put that constitution into practice.

royalcello

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Reply with quote  #45 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH_Jonathan
History shows that whenever the ruler of Russia isn't very, very strong, they kill him and replace him with someone else.

Not really.  The only Russian rulers who were killed since the beginning of tsardom in 1547 were Feodor II (1605), Peter III (1762), Paul I (1801), Alexander II (1881), and of course Nicholas II (1918), which considering all the violence in human history is really not a lot in nearly 500 years.  All the Soviet rulers died of natural causes (as did Kerensky and Yeltsin), and all died in office except for Kruschchev and Gorbachev.  I don't think this proves either that in all five cases the problem is that they weren't "strong" enough (though that could be said of Nicholas II) or that the other tsars were all "strong."

I am totally opposed to Putin since he has never truly repudiated the Soviet past.  The time for unlimited autocracy is probably over, but Russia needs a constitutional (not necessarily powerless) monarchy with a Tsar or Tsarina and prime minister in order to bury the Revolution completely and restore living links to its glorious Orthodox and Monarchical heritage.

 

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