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christopherdombrowski

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Could someone help explain how it could have been legally legitimate for the Grand Dauphin to make his 2nd son Philip the heir to the Crowns of Castile and Aragon rather than his 1st son Louis? From what I have understood from my reading of succession history so far, he could have 1) abdicated the throne which naturally would have meant it passing on to his senior heir, his 1st son Louis, or he could have 2) renounced his rights to the Crowns, which naturally would have meant that all of his possible heirs would have been passed over, including Philip.
Peter

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lFelipe V was named heir by Carlos II. It obviously was not possible for either his father le grand Dauphin or his elder brother the duc de Burgundy to assert their rights in front of him, as this would mean giving up succession to France, the union of the two kingdoms being politically out of the question. So they willingly surrendered their claim. The duc de Burgundy was in fact (just) an adult at the time and could do this for himself, but had he still been a minor child I see no difficulty in his father doing it on his behalf, with the King’s consent.
christopherdombrowski

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Thanks for the reply. I'll respond piece by piece where I'm still having trouble understanding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
It obviously was not possible for either his father le grand Dauphin or his elder brother the duc de Burgundy to assert their rights in front of him, as this would mean giving up succession to France, the union of the two kingdoms being politically out of the question.


But isn't this essentially what happened in the case of England and Scotland with King James VI of Scotland and I of England?

Peter

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With apologies to any Scots reading this, Scotland was in European terms small, weak and remote. The European powers were not bothered by its union with England, and not able to do much about it if they were, this being an island and all. The union of two such mighty realms as Spain and France was a different matter entirely, and the other powers would have gone to any lengths to prevent it.
christopherdombrowski

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For the purposes of this thread I am unconcerned with what was politically feasible for the interests of the European powers, but rather with the integrity of the Spanish law.

So far in studying the history of monarchies I have only so far seen 2 ways of giving away one's rights: 1) abdication of the office, which leads to it passing to one's heir and 2) renunciation of right, leading to one losing those rights and any losing the right to claim them through that particular descent. What I have heard so far is that the Grand Dauphin renounced his right to the throne, and his first son's, but not his second son. I don't see how this had historical legal precedent. And on top of that I don't see how it really makes sense. If one renounces one's right, then how can one possibly deem who is to inherit those rights, particularly one who would claim those rights through descent from he/she who renounced that right?

Peter

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Reply with quote  #6 
I don't think you're looking at this in quite the right way. There are many precedents, in fact too numerous to count. The division of the Frankish realms among the sons of Charlemagne essentially created France and Germany. The endless divisions of the parts of Germany among brothers created all the Hesse-this and Saxe-that and Brandenburg-the other we are familiar with. If you read my Spanish summary you will see how the Spanish realms frequently divided between brothers and merged again. Aragon and Sicily several times joined together and then split apart. And so on, and so on, all cases where one part of an inheritance quite lawfully went to one brother and another part as lawfully to another.
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