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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYMonarchist
'threats to the French Republic'.


I don't mean to compromise the seriousness of this thread...but I can't resist pointing out that, taking that phrase out of context, I would be honored to be labeled a "threat to the French Republic," as long as it were for the right reasons.
KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #32 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/04/air-france-plane-crash-victims-found

The wreckage of this flight has just been found on the ocean floor, and it still contains possibly identifiable bodies. There is hope that the black boxes may yet be found, and then we might finally be able to know just what caused this incredible tragedy.

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KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #33 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13255673

One of the black boxes has been found.

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KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #34 
http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE7420Z520110503

The other black box has been found. The cause of the crash may be known within a few weeks, it is hoped.

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"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #35 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_BRAZIL_PLANE_CRASH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Recordings have been recovered from the black boxes!

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"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #36 
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/31/france.jet.crash/index.html

75 more bodies were recovered from the site of the crash. And more is known about the last minutes of the doomed flight.

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Schneider

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Reply with quote  #37 
 He would be our Emperor. R.I.P, Her Majesty - I liked him very much. But, it´s a good signal. The House of Braganza has "a curse". Each heir able to be crown will die before his crowning. It means HIRH D. Rafael will reign. 
KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #38 
How on Earth is the death of Prince Pedro Luis a good signal, exactly? I think it was a terrible tragedy.
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Schneider

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Reply with quote  #39 
If you want a new Brazilian Empire, it´s a signal. If you value the human life, it´s a catasthrophe - And a terible paradox. Please read:
 http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maldi%C3%A7%C3%A3o_dos_Bragan%C3%A7as
Sujit

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Reply with quote  #40 
What link?
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #41 

I wish I could read Portugese. I got just enough to make me want to read the whole thing in a language I can understand.


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Peter

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Reply with quote  #42 

According to Google translate:

The Curse of Braganza is a myth, quoted by many chroniclers about the old ruling families of the Empire of Brazil ( 1 822 - the 1889th , and the kingdom of Portugal ( the 1,139th - 1,910th  and therefore also of the Portuguese overseas empire .

The "curse" would have begun in the reign of King John IV , in the seventeenth century , when the monarch had attacked a priest Franciscan kicking him after he had begged for alms . The friar, in response, put a curse the king, saying that never a firstborn male of Bragança live long enough to reach the throne.

In fact, since then, all the firstborn males that died before reigning dynasty.

A century after the curse, Dom João VI and Dona Carlota Joaquina de Bourbon , King and Queen of Portugal tried to reverse it, making annual visits to Franciscan monasteries in Lisbon and Rio de Janeiro , with no results, however. Coincidentally, with rare exceptions, the firstborn of the real branches of Bragança just left to die when the family lost its sovereignty in both Portugal and Brazil.

Index

 hide ]

edit ]Alleged victims

edit ]In Portugal

edit ]In Brazil

The plague continued to act even after the separation of the thrones of Brazil and Portugal ( 1822 :

  • Afonso Pedro (1845-1847) - eldest son of Dom Pedro II died in 1845 less than two years old, making her sister heiress Dona Isabel . Many point to the lack of a male heir as a cause for the fall of the monarchy in Brazil, so the rise of a foreign aristocrat, although the empress consort, fierce nationalist mood.

edit ]Trivia

  • Thanks to the origin of the curse, all the firstborn who died during the period of the Brazilian monarchy were buried in the Convent of St. Anthony of the Franciscan friars, as if being given as a pledge of repentance by the aggression of his ancestor.
  • The fruits of some relationships extraconjungais D. Peter I followed the match. This was the case with her ​​first child with the Marchioness of Santos , stillbirth, and Peter, his eldest son with Naomi Thierry, who died before completing one year. Still, with the Uruguayan Maria del Carmen Garcia had a stillborn child.
  • Despite the curse relate to firstborn men, some men were also "victims" of this unfortunate coincidence. This was the case of Dona Luisa Victoria , eldest daughter of Dona Isabel , Princess Imperial of Brazil, stillborn in 1874. It can be considered the same as D. Maria Amelia , eldest daughter of D. Peter with his second wife, D. Amelia . Princess Brazilian died at age 21 of tuberculosis, when it was the future bride Maximilian of Mexico .

edit ]Exceptions

  • Dom Pedro V , eldest son of Dona Maria II , was one of the exceptions to the curse during the monarchy in Portugal, were crowned king at age sixteen in 1853. However, he died a few years later, in 1861, twenty-four years, from typhoid fever . Pass the crown to his brother Dom Luis I .
  • Dom Carlos I , eldest son of Dom Luis I , was also another exception to the curse during the monarchy in Portugal, but was murdered along to his eldest son, Don Louis Philippe in 1908, forty-five years.
  • Pedro Augusto , Prince of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, eldest son of the Infanta Dona Leopoldina , Princess of Brazil, was pretender to the Brazilian throne until 1891, when finally the imperial princess, Lady Elizabeth, gave birth to a son. Despite being an exception to the curse during the monarchy, "the prince cursed" went on to develop psychotic mental illness background, attempted suicide and eventually died, unmarried, in a sanatorium in Vienna in 1934, sixty-eight years.

edit ]Post-monarchy

  • In connection with Dona Isabel, her eldest man, Don Pedro de Alcantara , did not die prematurely, but renounced his dynastic rights. His brother Dom Luís Filipe Maria was named Prince Imperial of Brazil , but could not ascend to the status of the emperor de jure , it died shortly after due to a serious bone rheumatism contracted during their participation in the trenches in the First World War .Thus, the title of chief of the imperial house of Brazil passed the firstborn of this, Pedro Henrique , after the death of Dona Isabel.
  • With regard to the descendants of Dom Miguel II , was his third son, the first of the second marriage, Dom Duarte I , who assumed the dynastic leadership of that branch, and his older brothers renounced their inheritance rights. Curiously, that the descendants of this branch of Braganza, heir of Don Miguel I , the second male child of John VI, is considered by many today as the legitimate claimant to the throne of Portugal. For these, the descendants of the eldest male child of Dom João VI, the heirs of Pedro IV, is extinct.
Windemere

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Reply with quote  #43 
Of 40 English monarchs from William the Conqueror to George VI, only 10 ( John, Henry III, Edward II, Henry V, Edward IV, Henry VIII, George I, George III, Victoria, George V ) were succeeded by eldest first-born sons.  An additional 8 were succeeded by eldest surviving sons.* ( These included Henry IV whose eldest son died in infancy and Charles I whose eldest son was stillborn.)  Twenty-two were succeeded by siblings, daughters, grandsons, or other relatives. There were only two consecutive father to eldest first-born son successions ( John was succeeded by his eldest son Henry III, who in turn was succeeded by eldest son Edward I ).\

*The phrase above "An additional 8 were succeeded by eldest surviving sons" actually isn't correct, and should be "An additional 7 were succeeded by eldest surviving sons". See the discussion below, regarding William the Conqueror's sons, to account for the discrepancy.

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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #44 
I hadn't given that aspect much thought.
Thanks - and you could have brought it on down to HM - the Queen was not an 'eldest first born son'.


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Peter

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Reply with quote  #45 
The Queen hasn't been succeeded by anyone yet, so Windemere took the count as far as it could go.
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