Monarchy Forum
Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 4 of 5      Prev   1   2   3   4   5   Next
azadi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,474
Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronTraas


Or maybe the US ought to get the hell out of that region, because we've already made enough of a mess, with no signs of anything improving in our lifetime. 

Why don't you put your own life on the line if it's something -- join some Kurdish nationalist group's military and make war on Iran? Why should we do it for you? I don't want our young soldiers to die for no benefit to the US, and likely no benefit to ANYONE. 

I'm in general annoyed by your overall attitude -- stating over and over what you want and how it must be done. In most case that makes you merely irritating and childish. But you really cross the line into being offensive when you call for a nation other than your own to invest trillions of dollars and thousands of lives into waging war against a nation you hate, however justifiable that hatred may or may not be. (read: I don't care and don't want you to tell me why you hate Iran or think the regime should be toppled. That's 100% irrelevant.)

USA ought to defend Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iranian aggression, because Israel and Saudi Arabia are traditional allies of USA.
I don't hate the Iranian nation. We Kurds are actually an Iranic people, and the Kurdish language is an Iranic language. The Persians are our kin. But I hate the Islamic Republic of Iran. I want the Persians to be liberated from the Ayatollah regime. I support restoration of the Pahlavi monarchy of Iran, but even a secular Republic of Iran is preferable to the Islamic Republic of Iran.
ROO86

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 109
Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

USA ought to defend Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iranian aggression, because Israel and Saudi Arabia are traditional allies of USA.
I don't hate the Iranian nation. We Kurds are actually an Iranic people, and the Kurdish language is an Iranic language. The Persians are our kin. But I hate the Islamic Republic of Iran. I want the Persians to be liberated from the Ayatollah regime. I support restoration of the Pahlavi monarchy of Iran, but even a secular Republic of Iran is preferable to the Islamic Republic of Iran.


Maybe the Kurdish Army can stop off and sort out Iran on their way to colonising Antarctica?

No-one likes Iran, nobody wants the Islamic republic to exist, it doesn’t mean we should pack up and wade off to war.

The US and allies are still dealing with the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan, the involvement in which has dragged on for much longer than anyone expected, we don’t need a third quagmire. I doubt there is much appetite in any of our countries to march off to a third all out Middle Eastern war.

A better solution is a popular uprising and overthrow of the regime from within.

If war were to happen, regional powers should be far more involved in the invasion and rebuild than they were in Afghanistan and Iraq II.
azadi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,474
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROO86


Maybe the Kurdish Army can stop off and sort out Iran on their way to colonising Antarctica?

No-one likes Iran, nobody wants the Islamic republic to exist, it doesn’t mean we should pack up and wade off to war.

The US and allies are still dealing with the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan, the involvement in which has dragged on for much longer than anyone expected, we don’t need a third quagmire. I doubt there is much appetite in any of our countries to march off to a third all out Middle Eastern war.

A better solution is a popular uprising and overthrow of the regime from within.

If war were to happen, regional powers should be far more involved in the invasion and rebuild than they were in Afghanistan and Iraq II.

I'm not proposing an unprovoked US invasion of Iran, but the USA ought to declare war on the Islamic Republic of Iran, if the Islamic Republic of Iran attacks Israel or Saudi Arabia. Why do you want to go to war against Russia, if Russia attacks the Baltic countries, while you are opposed to go to war against the Islamic Republic of Iran, if Iran attacks Israel and Saudi Arabia? Russia is a great power, unlike Iran.
A US occupation of Iran won't be a quagmire, because support for secular democracy is far more widespread among Iranians than among Afghans and Arab Iraqis and because sectarianism and tribalism are far weaker among Iranians than among Afghans and Arab Iraqis. 
ROO86

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 109
Reply with quote  #49 
I don’t recall ever saying we should go to war with Russia over the Baltic.

At any rate it’s one thing to defend a country than to attack another, the former being more palatable to a potentially war weary public. If Iran attacks Saudi Arabia or Israel either of those nations are quite capable of defending themselves and leading a coalition in an offensive.

As an edit. If support for secular democracy is so high then a popular uprising would be preferable. I don’t see how it wouldn’t be a quagmire, there’s a large brainwashed section of the public that ideologically hates the West.
azadi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,474
Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROO86
I don’t recall ever saying we should go to war with Russia over the Baltic.

At any rate it’s one thing to defend a country than to attack another, the former being more palatable to a potentially war weary public. If Iran attacks Saudi Arabia or Israel either of those nations are quite capable of defending themselves and leading a coalition in an offensive.

As an edit. If support for secular democracy is so high then a popular uprising would be preferable. I don’t see how it wouldn’t be a quagmire, there’s a large brainwashed section of the public that ideologically hates the West.

Popular uprisings often happen in Iran, but they are ruthlessly suppressed by the Revolutionary Guard and the Basij. The vast majority of Iranians desire secular democracy, and a significant part of the Iranians desire a constitutional Pahlavi monarchy. The Islamic Republic of Iran is the worst currently existing regime, except North Korea.
USA refusing to defend its traditional allies against Iranian aggression is cowardice, because Iran isn't a great power, unlike Russia. In addition, I support defending the Baltic countries against Russian aggression, despite being a Russophile, because the Baltic countries are member states of the EU. Ukraine is fortunately not a member state of the EU. Russia ought to keep Crimea, but I'm opposed to Russian expansionism beyond Crimea.
AaronTraas

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 528
Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

USA ought to defend Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iranian aggression, because Israel and Saudi Arabia are traditional allies of USA.


Who cares if they're technically allies? I certainly don't.

Would Israel or Saudi Arabia come to our assistance if we were attacked on our own soil? The answer is an unequivocal no. It's outside of their region, outside of their sphere of influence.

Again, why don't YOU personally go to war with Iran before telling other people that they should die in a war that will likely have no good upside, and further cement the USA's permanent military presence in the middle east, where it should have none. I reject completely that we should go to war just because we are allies with those two nations. An alliance isn't justification enough for war. If a war will likely not end in a situation that is better than not waging war, then it is by definition an un-just war.

If a war is inevitable between Iran and Israel or Iran and the Saudi's, letting them handle it will likely lead to a better overall outcome. 

If the Persian's want liberation, then let them take it themselves. The US supporting so-called freedom fighters has backfired many, many more times than it has been successful.
azadi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,474
Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronTraas


Who cares if they're technically allies? I certainly don't.

Would Israel or Saudi Arabia come to our assistance if we were attacked on our own soil? The answer is an unequivocal no. It's outside of their region, outside of their sphere of influence.

Again, why don't YOU personally go to war with Iran before telling other people that they should die in a war that will likely have no good upside, and further cement the USA's permanent military presence in the middle east, where it should have none. I reject completely that we should go to war just because we are allies with those two nations. An alliance isn't justification enough for war. If a war will likely not end in a situation that is better than not waging war, then it is by definition an un-just war.

If a war is inevitable between Iran and Israel or Iran and the Saudi's, letting them handle it will likely lead to a better overall outcome. 

If the Persian's want liberation, then let them take it themselves. The US supporting so-called freedom fighters has backfired many, many more times than it has been successful.

Do you claim, that USA liberating Kuwait from Saddam was wrong?
AaronTraas

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 528
Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Do you claim, that USA liberating Kuwait from Saddam was wrong?


It was a bit different -- Kuwait asked for our help after being annexed. And Kuwait was a much smaller power incapable of defending itself. 

I'd still rather the US did not enter that war. It wasn't our place to do so. 

And you still haven't answered my question: "why don't YOU personally go to war with Iran before telling other people that they should die in a war". Are you lazy or a coward?  

I won't answer any of your other questions until you answer this. I know what I'm willing to fight and die for. Do you?
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 5,098
Reply with quote  #54 
Reza Pahlavi at the Hudson Institute:
azadi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,474
Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronTraas


It was a bit different -- Kuwait asked for our help after being annexed. And Kuwait was a much smaller power incapable of defending itself. 

I'd still rather the US did not enter that war. It wasn't our place to do so. 

And you still haven't answered my question: "why don't YOU personally go to war with Iran before telling other people that they should die in a war". Are you lazy or a coward?  

I won't answer any of your other questions until you answer this. I know what I'm willing to fight and die for. Do you?

I'm willing to fight and die in a Kurdish War of Independence. 
Pallavicini

Registered:
Posts: 58
Reply with quote  #56 
This may have been resolved before, but why consistently link thoughts of a restored monarchy with the Pahlavis? In the scheme of things, they are relative parvenus compared to long-reigning Qajar dynasty. Qajar princes are still flourishing, as are descendants of even older Persian dynasties. The obvious advantage of these dynasties of old Persia over the controversial Pahlavis is that are no living Iranians whose stomachs turn at the mention of the old dynasties, and no one left alive with blood-boiling memories of how their life, or that an immediate family member or friend was destroyed under Persia's earlier shahs.
__________________
“We're all born naked, and the rest is drag.”  - RuPaul
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 5,098
Reply with quote  #57 
Reza Pahlavi on Fox Business:
https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6123248182001/#sp=show-clips
azadi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,474
Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallavicini
This may have been resolved before, but why consistently link thoughts of a restored monarchy with the Pahlavis? In the scheme of things, they are relative parvenus compared to long-reigning Qajar dynasty. Qajar princes are still flourishing, as are descendants of even older Persian dynasties. The obvious advantage of these dynasties of old Persia over the controversial Pahlavis is that are no living Iranians whose stomachs turn at the mention of the old dynasties, and no one left alive with blood-boiling memories of how their life, or that an immediate family member or friend was destroyed under Persia's earlier shahs.

The Pahlavi Shahs were excellent rulers of Iran. They made Iran a secular state, supported women's rights and enacted a land reform, which redistributed land from landlords to poor peasants. The Pahlavi regime was authoritarian, but not totalitarian. The Pahlavi Shahs granted a lot of personal freedom to their subjects, if they stayed out of politics.
Most Iranian monarchists support the Pahlavis, and Reza Pahlavi is very popular among the Iranians. Support for a Qajar restoration is insignificant among the Iranians. Reza Pahlavi doesn't support restoring the authoritarian Pahlavi regime, despite defending the legacy of his father. Reza Pahlavi supports the establishment of a secular democratic constitutional monarchy in Iran.

Pallavicini

Registered:
Posts: 58
Reply with quote  #59 
Thanks for that perspective - yes, no doubt Iranians under 45 have not been taught much about  the Pahlavi dynasty's immediate predecessors.

I don't follow Reza much, though his mom the Empress is one of my favorite living royals.  To my mind, the Shah's rule, despite its many positives, was not “excellent.”  That would require one to discount the darker side of a reign that has unleashed such a volcano of repressed rage as to be spewing hot lava far beyond Iran's borders some forty years on. 

__________________
“We're all born naked, and the rest is drag.”  - RuPaul
bator

Registered:
Posts: 295
Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallavicini
This may have been resolved before, but why consistently link thoughts of a restored monarchy with the Pahlavis? In the scheme of things, they are relative parvenus compared to long-reigning Qajar dynasty. Qajar princes are still flourishing, as are descendants of even older Persian dynasties. The obvious advantage of these dynasties of old Persia over the controversial Pahlavis is that are no living Iranians whose stomachs turn at the mention of the old dynasties, and no one left alive with blood-boiling memories of how their life, or that an immediate family member or friend was destroyed under Persia's earlier shahs.


can you mention any people and which former dynasties they are descendents of? could be interesting to know
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.