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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #16 
Ethio is referring to Panafricanforum.  

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KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponocrates
Ethio is referring to Panafricanforum.  

Oh, OK, I thought it was an odd sort of nickname for you for some reason.

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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #18 
I'll just add that in respect to their ultimate goals (in theory), the communists and fascists are most different.    The fascist wants a hierarchical militarized/spiritual state that rules an empire of various peoples, some peoples being more equal than others. 

The communist wants an outright abolition of the state, which includes the military (no wars), church (no spiritual beliefs), class (no private wealth), and political rank.   In other words, complete egalitarianism.  

The former has some basis in the past (e.g., the Roman Empire).   The latter, doesn't, which is why it depends more on things fundamentally changing in the future.  But I'll add that Hitler and Mussolini were still claiming that they were future-oriented and doing something that's never been done before.  In other words, they did not say they were traditionalists and many traditionalists were opposed to them.

    

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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #19 
Ponocrates as always argues his points effectively.  As he says, theoretical Communism and Communism as practiced by actual states (or what they called Marxist Scientific Socialism which was to be a bridge to eventual Communism) were not at all the same thing. 

Fascism and Communism had one huge thing in common, which was their totalitarian approach to administering their states, and that is what I think our friend Panafricanforum has in mind when he equates them.  He is not alone in that at all.  In fact, the proclamation issued in London by his late Majesty Emperor-in-exile Amha Selassie upon his assumption of the Ethiopian Imperial Throne in 1989 refers to the Derg regime as Fascistic Communists.  He equated the inhuman atrocities committed by the Derg with those commited by the Fascist forces under Rudolfo Graziani during the Italian occupation.  The inhumanity, the trampling of individual rights, the totalitarian approach towards total control of society at large were indeed so similar as to be equivalent.

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #20 
More details about the death and funeral of the Sultan Ali Mirah Hanfere.  There continues to be some dispute as to whether the late Sultan was 90, 91 or 95 years of age.  Many people have stated that the Sultan was quite a bit older than any of those ages.  Regardless, Ethiopia has lost one of her great elders.

http://afaralliance.com/wordpress/2011/04/26/afar%E2%80%99s-spiritual-leader-dies-at-the-age-of-91/

http://ethiopiantimes.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/ethiopia-bitweded-sultan-ali-mirah-the-voice-of-ethiopian-unity/

http://allafar.net/?p=1412

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
panafricanforum

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Reply with quote  #21 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist
Ponocrates as always argues his points effectively.  As he says, theoretical Communism and Communism as practiced by actual states (or what they called Marxist Scientific Socialism which was to be a bridge to eventual Communism) were not at all the same thing. 

Fascism and Communism had one huge thing in common, which was their totalitarian approach to administering their states, and that is what I think our friend Panafricanforum has in mind when he equates them.  He is not alone in that at all.  In fact, the proclamation issued in London by his late Majesty Emperor-in-exile Amha Selassie upon his assumption of the Ethiopian Imperial Throne in 1989 refers to the Derg regime as Fascistic Communists.  He equated the inhuman atrocities committed by the Derg with those commited by the Fascist forces under Rudolfo Graziani during the Italian occupation.  The inhumanity, the trampling of individual rights, the totalitarian approach towards total control of society at large were indeed so similar as to be equivalent.



Basically Ethiomonarchist and Ponocrates explain what I was trying to relay.  I am a student of political science and history in which I will receive a degree in both disciplines  soon.  There is a difference in the two politically ideologies, but there are some simularies.  Pertaining to Ethiopia both ideologies prevail after the criminal destruction of the monarchy by the derg.  My point was that these two political ideologies are in existence today in Ethiopia side by side each other in their own private wedding of filth.  Even the current Prime Minister of Ethiopia has his roots in marxism, the government also has some aspect of fascism in it as well.  That is my opinion on the subject of fascism and communism in Ethiopia.  If Kymonarchist,  or someone else would like to discuss this further in a civil matter I would love to participate in that endeavor!  For now I would like to focus more on one of Ethiopia's honorible son's Sultan Ali Mirah Hanfere of Afar.

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KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #22 
the Sultan of Aussa now has a Wikipedia article:


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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #23 
The Ethiopian Crown Council has released a statement on the passing of the late Bitwoded Ali Mirah Hanfere, Sultan of Ausa.

http://www.ethiopiancrown.org/

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #24 
The nephew of the late Sultan, Ambassador Kadafo Mohammed Hanfere, has released a letter of thanks from the Sultan's family to those who sent their condolences, and revealed more of the history of the late Sultan Ali Mirah Hanfere.

http://www.ethiopianreview.com/content/33023

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
DutchMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #25 
First of all, I would also like to offer my condolences for the sultans death.

Interesting how this thread has evolved. Ponocrates, I think you are right that there are many similarities between fascism and communism. This is also the reason that some scientists compare the political spectrum with a horseshoe, where the two far ends come very close to each other. Still, they never touch each other. Fascism usualy leaves much of the 'old order' alive and tries to use it for its own goals. When Hitler and Mussolini took power, they removed the elements that we most hostile to them, but they didn't radically try to reorganize institutions like the army or the bureaucracy like had happened in the soviet union. Also, they would probably tolerate more open income inequality than communist states would (of course, the soviet union also had huge inequalities, but these always had to be hidden).
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #26 
I wouldn't underestimate Hitler's revolutionary intent.   He allowed the "older order" - nobility, clergy, industrialists, military officers - to survive because he needed them until he finished the war against Bolshevism, which the "older order" considered the greater of two evils.  Hitler hoped to finish WWII in the early 40s after acquiring Russian minerals and oil fields - then Germany, in his view, could finally be economically self-sufficient.   Then he would really get started with imposing his vision for the Third Reich, as if the last decade hadn't been radical enough.   Part of the changes would include the replacement of the "older order" with the new caste system that he had already been developing, in which the SS would be the new nobility and would control the military, industry, government, religion, and land.   You could imagine something much bigger and more extensive than the "Night of the Long Knives" that would complete this transition.   The old titles of nobility would be replaced with new titles.   Some people from the older order might be promoted to the top ranks, but others probably wouldn't.   Industry would no longer be owned by private individuals, but would be owned by the SS, as a caste, allegedly for the good of the people.    The Christian church would be undermined and replaced by a cult that promotes Aryanism and justifies the new caste system.   So just as Hitler had a grandiose vision for his capital - "Welthauptstadt" - which would be built with marble and precious stone to last for thousands of years (see Speer's "Theory of Ruin Value"), he had an equally ambitious plan to change the political, social, and economic order that no conservative, in a traditional sense, would recognize.

If you think about though, the Soviets also had their own caste system, but they were contradicting the ultimate aim of their ideology - it was considered a necessary intermediary stage.   For the Nazis, on the other hand, the caste system is the ultimate fulfillment of their ideology.    

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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #27 
This is a month late, but better late than never.

A new Sultan of Ethiopia's Afar people has been enthroned.  He is Hanfere Ali Mirah, the son of the late Sultan Ali Mirah Hanfere.  Sultan Hanfere served as regional president of the Afar region in post Derg Ethiopia, and as Ethiopian ambassador to Kuwait.  Sultan Hanfere unlike his father has enjoyed warm relations with the current Ethiopian government.

http://arefe.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/new-sultan-to-be-crowned-in-afar/ 

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
KebraNagastParty

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Reply with quote  #28 

Not be optimistic but this could lead to something down the role.  With the crowning of the new Sultan of Afar, one can not help wonder would this be and possible return of the imperial crown of Ethiopia?


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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #29 

Quote:

Not be optimistic but this could lead to something down the role.  With the crowning of the new Sultan of Afar, one can not help wonder would this be and possible return of the imperial crown of Ethiopia?

 


No I don't think this means anything as far as a resoration of the Imperial crown.  The Afar sultanate was restored in 1991 after the fall of the Derg and a couple of minor chieftancies received recognition.  The government remains commited to a republican form of government and does not show any new favor towards the crown.  The late Sultan of the Afars was a monarchist and a staunch supporter of the Emperor-in-exile Amha Selassie, and had rather cold relations with the EPRDF government.  His son and successor, Sultan Hanfere is an EPRDF government supporter, and I don't know how he feels about a restored Ethiopian monarchy, but I don't think he'd be as supportive as his late father.

__________________
The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
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