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azadi

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Why are most members of this forum staunch supporters of the claim of Maria Vladimirovna to the Russian throne? I support electing a Romanov Tsar of Russia, but I'm neutral in the dispute between Maria Vladimirovna and the Romanov Family Association. I want Putin to choose a Romanov as his successor. Putin ought to rule Russia until he dies of natural causes. I want the Pauline laws to be abolished, because banning the Tsar of Russia from marrying a noblewoman or a commoner is outdated. 
Peter

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We've discussed the topic before and you know what I think, so I won't bother to repeat it. Someone else might possibly have something to say. Oh, and Putin will rule Russia to the end of his life. Unfortunately, but the man's grip on power and lack of scruple are such that I can't foresee him ever being removed, except by death. No, I am not urging that he should be murdered. That's his technique, not mine.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
We've discussed the topic before and you know what I think, so I won't bother to repeat it. Someone else might possibly have something to say. Oh, and Putin will rule Russia to the end of his life. Unfortunately, but the man's grip on power and lack of scruple are such that I can't foresee him ever being removed, except by death. No, I am not urging that he should be murdered. That's his technique, not mine.

I'm not opposed to Maria Vladimirovna being elected Empress of Russia, because she is a Russian nationalist, who supported the reunification of Crimea with Russia, and a devout Orthodox Christian. But I support the right of the Federal Assembly of Russia to choose a new Tsar of Russia from among the descendants of the Romanov dynasty, if the Russian monarchy is restored.
Russia remaining a republic is more likely to happen than Russia restoring the monarchy, but I won't rule out the Russian monarchy being restored, because Russian monarchism is far stronger than German monarchism, Italian monarchism and French monarchism. Some prominent supporters of Putin are monarchists, such as Sergey Aksyonov, the governor of Crimea, and Konstantin Malofeyev, a prominent Russian oligarch, who supports Putin. Republics, which are ruled by authoritarian regimes, are more likely to restore the monarchy than democratic republics. The Russian monarchy will likely be restored, if Putin wants to restore the Russian monarchy, but the German monarchy won't be restored, if Merkel wants to restore the German monarchy.
Peter

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Well, you know I agree that after such a long gap the monarchy could not be restored except by the popular will, and if it were the popular will to restore the monarchy but not in the person of the Grand Duchess, then whoever was chosen would be valid Emperor or Empress. Putin won't be restoring the monarchy, though. He likes to cover all bases so is perfectly willing to show respect to the Imperial family and to cozy up to monarchy supporters among the powerful, but he didn't get and stay where he is by setting up rivals to himself at the head of the nation. Cozying up is all it will ever be. Angela Merkel wanting to restore the German monarchy? How did even your febrile brain come up with that idea?
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
Well, you know I agree that after such a long gap the monarchy could not be restored except by the popular will, and if it were the popular will to restore the monarchy but not in the person of the Grand Duchess, then whoever was chosen would be valid Emperor or Empress. Putin won't be restoring the monarchy, though. He likes to cover all bases so is perfectly willing to show respect to the Imperial family and to cozy up to monarchy supporters among the powerful, but he didn't get and stay where he is by setting up rivals to himself at the head of the nation. Cozying up is all it will ever be. Angela Merkel wanting to restore the German monarchy? How did even your febrile brain come up with that idea?

I don't claim that Merkel wants to restore the German monarchy. Merkel has never expressed support for restoration of the German monarchy. I mentioned Merkel, because Merkel can't restore the German monarchy, even IF she wanted to do it, because Germany is a democratic republic. Franco could restore the Spanish monarchy, because he was a dictator. Putin can restore the Russian monarchy, because he is a dictator. Putin isn't a monarchist, but I won't rule out the monarchist supporters of Putin, such as Sergey Aksyonov and Konstantin Malofeyev, managing to convince Putin to restore the monarchy after his death.
I won't rule out a Montenegro-style partial restoration of the Russian monarchy, if Russia remains a republic. 
https://ryanphunter.wordpress.com/2015/06/24/romanov-family-invited-to-return-to-russia/

The Russian monarchy is the only European former monarchy, which I want to be restored, because the Romanovs are my favourite European royal dynasty and because a restoration of the Russian monarchy will be a symbolic rejection of the Bolshevik Revolution. I'm not opposed to other European former monarchies being restored, but I don't care much about it. I don't care about restoring the German monarchy, because Liechtenstein remains a monarchy.

Peter

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I know you didn't claim that. I just wanted to tweak your ear. As I have said before, I don't agree that Franco restored the Spanish monarchy, even posthumously. In his version of monarchy, the Head of State (a form of words I use advisedly) had to be male, a Spaniard, Roman Catholic and over 25. None of these conditions had been made in Spain's thousand-year history of monarchy, except Catholicism implicitly. Further, succession was by nomination. And anyone fulfilling the four conditions could be the nominee. The only difference would be that a member of the royal house would be King; anyone else, Regent.

What kind of a monarchy is that? As I have also said before, it was King Juan Carlos not Franco that restored true monarchy to Spain. Now, why did Franco do even as much as he did? Because he deluded himself that he had a legacy to preserve, and this crippled imitation of monarchy was his attempt at doing it. Juan Carlos was under no delusions as to the worth of Franco's 'legacy', and promptly set about dismantling it, to near-universal acclaim. So, assuming Putin also was concerned about his 'legacy', the example of Franco would not be an encouragement to go about things in any similar way. But I'm not sure he even is. My impression is that self-interest is Putin's only interest, and he won't give a fig about what happens after he dies. Because, after all, no one that matters will be around any more.

Finally, Franco was a genuine, 24-carat dictator. Putin is a corrupt and authoritarian ruler who has no intention of allowing anything resembling honest elections (because, heaven forfend, people might vote someone else in), but he does maintain at least a pretence of democracy. He cannot just suddenly announce 'Oh, the monarchy will be restored' and that's it, he has to work through the legal mechanisms. And a lot of people who don't care for the idea would put up obstacles. Maybe he could get it done, maybe he couldn't, but why would he even bother in the first place? What's in it for him? Nothing that I can see, and therefore I don't think he'll be doing it.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
I know you didn't claim that. I just wanted to tweak your ear. As I have said before, I don't agree that Franco restored the Spanish monarchy, even posthumously. In his version of monarchy, the Head of State (a form of words I use advisedly) had to be male, a Spaniard, Roman Catholic and over 25. None of these conditions had been made in Spain's thousand-year history of monarchy, except Catholicism implicitly. Further, succession was by nomination. And anyone fulfilling the four conditions could be the nominee. The only difference would be that a member of the royal house would be King; anyone else, Regent.

What kind of a monarchy is that? As I have also said before, it was King Juan Carlos not Franco that restored true monarchy to Spain. Now, why did Franco do even as much as he did? Because he deluded himself that he had a legacy to preserve, and this crippled imitation of monarchy was his attempt at doing it. Juan Carlos was under no delusions as to the worth of Franco's 'legacy', and promptly set about dismantling it, to near-universal acclaim. So, assuming Putin also was concerned about his 'legacy', the example of Franco would not be an encouragement to go about things in any similar way. But I'm not sure he even is. My impression is that self-interest is Putin's only interest, and he won't give a fig about what happens after he dies. Because, after all, no one that matters will be around any more.

Finally, Franco was a genuine, 24-carat dictator. Putin is a corrupt and authoritarian ruler who has no intention of allowing anything resembling honest elections (because, heaven forfend, people might vote someone else in), but he does maintain at least a pretence of democracy. He cannot just suddenly announce 'Oh, the monarchy will be restored' and that's it, he has to work through the legal mechanisms. And a lot of people who don't care for the idea would put up obstacles. Maybe he could get it done, maybe he couldn't, but why would he even bother in the first place? What's in it for him? Nothing that I can see, and therefore I don't think he'll be doing it.

You ought to admit that the Russian monarchy is more likely to be restored than the German, Italian and French monarchies.
Peter

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I'll admit anything, once I'm persuaded of the truth of it. So far, on this I'm not persuaded. Doesn't of course mean I don't wish it would happen, but I'm no more expecting it than I am in Germany, France or Italy.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
I'll admit anything, once I'm persuaded of the truth of it. So far, on this I'm not persuaded. Doesn't of course mean I don't wish it would happen, but I'm no more expecting it than I am in Germany, France or Italy.

I don't want you to admit that the Russian monarchy is likely to be restored. I don't expect the Russian monarchy to be restored, but I won't rule it out, unlike you. But you ought to admit that restoration of the Russian monarchy is less unlikely to happen than restoration of the German, French and Italian monarchies. 
Peter

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Shan't. So there.
azadi

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Shan't. So there.

Restoration of the monarchy isn't discussed at all in Germany, but it is actually discussed in Russia. Sergey Aksyonov, the governor of Crimea, has proposed restoring the Russian monarchy. No German politician has proposed restoring the German monarchy. Restoration of the Russian monarchy is remotely plausible. Restoration of the German monarchy is next to impossible. I haven't claimed that restoration of the Russian monarchy is imminent. I agree that Russia is more likely to remain a republic than to restore the monarchy. But not distinguishing between Russia and Germany concerning monarchism is wrong. 
Peter

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A more realistic political programme for you to consider.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
A more realistic political programme for you to consider.

I don't want you to admit that the Russian monarchy is likely to be restored. I merely want you to admit, that Russian monarchism is far stronger than German monarchism.

Peter

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You didn't like that one? OK, then here's a more constructive conversation for you to have.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
You didn't like that one? OK, then here's a more constructive conversation for you to have.

Why are you refusing to engage with me?
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