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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #331 
And interviewed about the violent extremism Bernie Sanders' staffers promote:
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #332 
The SPLC and CAIR continue their censorship crusade:
https://pjmedia.com/trending/splc-cair-take-aim-at-121-billion-industry-in-effort-to-silence-conservative-hate-groups/

The Center for Security Policy is one of many organisations falsely called a "hate group" by the SPLC. It has a strong case if any lawsuit comes up.

 

Peter

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Reply with quote  #333 
I took a quick look. On the face of things appears to be a bunch of anti-Muslim loonies circulating crazed conspiracy theories. The SPLC are certainly far from alone in their characterisation of this distasteful-seeming organisation. I don't wish the CSP luck in any lawsuit, quite the reverse, but I do think they'd need it.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #334 
Well, yes, the SPLC is part of a web of left-liberal activist groups, so it wouldn't be surprising it's attacks on a group like this are echoed by others. It amazing, though, that it seems to have teamed up with CAIR, a group with links to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas and the Holy Land Foundation. You would think they would have a little more care for optics, even these days when their reputation is rightfully in tatters already.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #335 
Sorry Peter, but Frank Gaffney and J. Michael Waller are very fine people, and deserve better than the smears directed against them. Same with Fred Fleitz.

It's not just the SPLC which smeared them, but also the ADL.
VivatReginaScottorum

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Reply with quote  #336 
The neat thing about conspiracy theories is that you can dismiss any evidence against you as a fabrication by the conspiracy, and thus as proof that you are right.
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That which concerns the mystery of the King's power is not lawful to be disputed; for that is to wade into the weakness of Princes, and to take away the mystical reverence that belongs unto them that sit in the throne of God. - James VI and I of England, Scotland and Ireland
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #337 
What are these conspiracy theories? The neat thing about unexplained accusations is they can mean anything, but the devil is usually in the detail. II don't necessarily agree with the group David linked to, but it definitely seems to me that terms like Islamophobia are thrown around too much and at quite plausible, though not necessarily definitive, interpretations of Islam. I certainly don't trust the likes of the SPLC or CAIR to define what is and what isn't within the range of acceptable discourse about Islam. It hardly seems a conspiracy not to take them at their word or as neutral authorities, if that is the conspiracy theory in question.
VivatReginaScottorum

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Reply with quote  #338 
What I mean is that it's easy to disregard any criticism of the people DavidV is defending by assuming that it is a product of a vast web of liberal left-wing activists and therefore biased. For a neutral observer, however, there is little reason to trust Frank Gaffney or J. Michael Waller over their accusers. I'm not necessarily assuming the SPLC's side in this, but I'm not going to take it for granted that the accusations levelled against the CSP are smears either.
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That which concerns the mystery of the King's power is not lawful to be disputed; for that is to wade into the weakness of Princes, and to take away the mystical reverence that belongs unto them that sit in the throne of God. - James VI and I of England, Scotland and Ireland
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #339 
But I don't think anyone was doing that. Peter put forward the idea of other, unnamed organisations agreeing with these groups, so it seems valid to wonder if these other organisations are not ideological, as the SPLC and CAIR undoubtedly are in somewhat different ways. Without knowing who these other organisations are it is hard to say more, but I don't think the fact that there are others who agree with these two necessarily means much. There are also undoubtedly left-liberal activist groups, who even often coordinate (as do their ideological opponents).
Peter

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Reply with quote  #340 
Not CAIR as it happens, the Anti-Defamation League. Who of course are a Jewish organisation. And several individual views from people who appear to be in a position to know what they're talking about. But my purpose was not to present an ironclad case against the CSP, not interested enough to do the research for that. It was to point out that it was not a case of the SPLC randomly defaming someone who is actually as pure as the driven snow (though, going by David, you would think they never did anything else). The SPLC are not alone in their view, and there does appear to be a case for the CSP to answer.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #341 
I don't think that it's random. The SPLC has long suffered from the left-liberal predilection to defend Islam from substantive criticisms with charges of hate and extremism. They have even ended up accusing Muslims and ex-Muslims of it. That's why you get this absurd spectacle of them working with an organisation riven with extremist links to do just that. We would have to see the details of what went on here, but I would certainly not be surprised if it was just a matter of harsh criticism of Islam and perhaps commentary on the views of many Muslims. This to me is hardly beyond the pale of acceptable discourse. The ADL is better than the SPLC, certainly, but it too has a reputation today of throwing around accusations of hate promiscuously, and the current leadership has made a determined attempt to conform to left-liberal ideology:

https://thefederalist.com/2017/07/28/anti-defamation-leagues-sad-slide-just-another-left-wing-pressure-group/

But we need more details to come to any real conclusions. I just wouldn't trust the SPLC as far as I could throw them.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #342 
Another year and one thing hasn't changed: the SPLC continues industrial scale defamation
https://pjmedia.com/trending/splc-releases-fear-mongering-hate-map-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #343 
Andy Ngo's new book:
https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/andy-ngo/unmasked/9781549131981/
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