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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #16 
The lives weren't wasted a man who used WMD no longer posses a threat - that tyranny is overpast. 

What awaits the Iraqis is a matter for the Iraqis.

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clark

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYMonarchist
And all those countries consented to our troop presence. Iraq didn't. Get over it. Obama has succeeded in ending the Iraq War, which was in fact a campaign promise. Go Obama, I say! He has, in fact, been majorly successful in foreign policy. Again, Ponocrates, get over it.


No, he does not get credit for that. He wanted to keep troops there longer and the only reason it didn't happen was that he couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. This is an Obama defeat that has been repainted by the propaganda machine as a success.


As for Iraq, I have mixed feelings about the war. I am glad that Saddam is out of power, but I fear that the conflict has irreversibly harmed the christian population of Iraq....
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #18 
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Originally Posted by clark


No, he does not get credit for that. He wanted to keep troops there longer and the only reason it didn't happen was that he couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. This is an Obama defeat that has been repainted by the propaganda machine as a success.


As for Iraq, I have mixed feelings about the war. I am glad that Saddam is out of power, but I fear that the conflict has irreversibly harmed the christian population of Iraq....


This! I, too, am glad that the murderous Saddam is gone, but as Iraq inevitably descends into anarchy and the slaughter of the  remaining Christians begins (as it already has in Egypt) I will hold B. Hussein ibn Barrack responsible.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #19 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark


No, he does not get credit for that. He wanted to keep troops there longer and the only reason it didn't happen was that he couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. This is an Obama defeat that has been repainted by the propaganda machine as a success.


As for Iraq, I have mixed feelings about the war. I am glad that Saddam is out of power, but I fear that the conflict has irreversibly harmed the christian population of Iraq....


This! I, too, am glad that the murderous Saddam is gone, but as Iraq inevitably descends into anarchy and the slaughter of the  remaining Christians begins (as it already has in Egypt) I will hold B. Hussein ibn Barrack responsible.



And I will choose to hold President George W. Bush responsible.  As bad as Saddam the Butcher was, George Bush's invasion has achieved what the Iranian Ayatollahs were unable to do on their own.  He has placed a firm  Shiite ally of the Islamic republic of Iran on the seat of power in Baghdad, has radicallized a significant portion of the Sunni into Al Qaeda sympathizers and has caused Iran's ancient Christian population scurrying for the exits.  Persian Iran has greatly increased it's influence in the Arab world.  All these things were unimaginable under Saddam Hussien.  Say what you will, but all this occured well before President Obama took office and he's just cutting his loses and getting out while there is some modicum of dignity left in the situation.  George H.W. Bush was wise when he halted the first Gulf War when he did, which is why I still say he is probably the most underrated President this country has ever had.  His son is in my opinion the worst President since Jimmy Carter. 

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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #20 
The current holder is well on his way to being the worst since Wilson.

If Obama were a negotiator, their would be a strong US presence, and more safety for the minorities, as it is, the 'cut out before it gets too ugly' is probably the wisest bit he's done in foreign policy - and even that is just putting the best face on the 'get out of here' from the locals....


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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #21 

Why would he want to remain there when the host government clearly wants us out, and public feeling in the U.S. agrees?  We should never have gone in to begin with.


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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #22 
The last bit, in hindsight, is abundantly clear (unfortunately decisions aren't made based on hindsight).

We broke it, we should stay around to fix it. 
Local opinion matters on that, of course.
The 'will of the people' has lead to great stupidity before. 
This isn't likely to be the last time. 

Standing up against it has brought lasting success (as when Bush Sr stopped at the border).  Of course Obama knows how to do that that only when shoving Obamadon'tcare down the throats of the citizenry.

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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #23 
Negotiating to get a military post somewhere in the desert shouldn't have been a problem if there was an ounce of determination on our part - but I don't think there was or we have a very incompetent state department.

This is a case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.  There is no point in going back to whether we should have gone to war against Iraq.  Congress authorized the mission.  However, with this outcome, it was turned into a mistake - a waste of time, blood, and treasure.   Was that the goal?   Yes, we have the consolation of removing Saddam Hussein, but the real goal was a lasting presence in the region as we have done in Europe, Japan, Korea, Kuwait, and the other Gulf states.   The hard part had already been done by the time Obama came into office.   But Obama blew the end.  Why?  You tell me.     


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KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #24 
Actually, in 2008, Dubya negotiated the SOFA that required all U.S. troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011. Obama has simply upheld that agreement.
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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #25 
If I remember at the time, it was a stopgap measure to buy time, but also left wiggle room about what was meant by "withdrawal."   It was expected that the US would keep around 10-30 thousand people in the country after that date was supposed to go into effect.   The intent wasn't to make this a complete withdrawal.






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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
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