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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #781 
Well it seems a second referendum is an idea that is getting new life... and the chaos continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/10/mps-look-to-bring-back-mays-brexit-deal-with-vote-on-referendum

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49657006

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/a-chaotic-final-night-for-parliament-leaves-johnson-with-bleak-choices-on-the-path-to-brexit/2019/09/10/443a835a-d33a-11e9-8924-1db7dac797fb_story.html?noredirect=on

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/europe/brexit-view-from-brussels-gbr-intl/index.html


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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #782 
Boris Johnson suffers more defeats that make you wonder what could possibly be the road forward for him and his government.  The opposition are charging the Prime Minister with having misled the Queen, and a former Tory lawmaker has stated that if he had in fact done so, Mr. Johnson should resign. Also government documents detailing explosive "worst case scenarios" for a no deal Brexit were released.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/brexit-in-chaos-after-court-rules-pms-suspension-of-parliament-was-unlawful-idUSKCN1VW1BB

https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-deceived-queen-and-should-resign-172441326.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAM3FsNcdX13Y2ON4mabS7f2rWundSjuhj9MramfPkbzSau-QkVYOp4drOgy0wkPL_giLU_M-_CLx01SmCHGOwglmlduZ8MjWeIiePxBS1DNS82478SlvD8mrugS1drDHYRxyg9AOea01jEHIaRMbNz3YxOAvMk5yuJNRAnpbEIET

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/parliament-prorogue-suspend-unlawful-boris-johnson-latest-scottish-supreme-court-brexit-no-deal-a9100396.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-live-brexit-today-latest-news-no-deal-tory-lead-eu-a9100206.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-suspend-parliament-brexit-citizens-arrest-len-mccluskey-a9100761.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/11/uk/operation-yellowhammer-published-brexit-gbr-intl/index.html

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #783 
Here's a good article on the ups and downs of of the situation, for Brexiteers:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/brexit-predictions-reasons-for-against/

The author notes that there are reasons for Brexiteers to be optimistic:


"
The case for Brexit happening boils down to this: Boris Johnson is prime minister, and his political career depends on effecting Brexit. And not just his, but the Tory party’s survival would be imperiled by the failure to Brexit. Nigel Farage is waiting with his Brexit party, ready to eat the decaying carcass of this one dominant political body. Working in Johnson’s favor is that he is significantly more popular than Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour party who cannot be thrown out, but whom hardly anyone seems to want to make prime minister. When an election comes, and it must, a Johnson-led majority would owe its position to a prime minister who has a mandate to take the U.K. out. European patience for Brexit is also running short. Uncertainty threatens to bring about recession in a weakening German economy. Emmanuel Macron wants to push an ambitious vision for the European Union, and a long-term vegetative-state Brexit is a threat to them."

There are certainly countervailing reasons to be pessimistic too, but I think that, as long as Johnson and the Tories are steadfast (and Farage does help there) and there is no great change in polling for the parties, there is no reason to panic yet. This is because, as noted above, Brexit only needs to happen once. Parliament can't bind a future parliament to keep us in the EU, but once we leave, it is exceedingly unlikely the EU would just let us back in without a long and humiliating accession process, even if there was any kind of mandate for that among the British people. I think the realistic options now are basically five:

1) Either Johnson simply refuses to ask for an extension, and, assuming parliament can't act in time to avert it, we crash out on 1st November. I could live with that, certainly.

2) parliament does get an extension request through, but the EU doesn't accept it. I think this far from a certain outcome, but it is a live possibility. They must be almost as fed up with this process as we are. Macron hinted at this outcome.

3) parliament gets its extension and negotiates its deal with the EU, giving us a soft, somewhat fudged Brexit. I could live with this. At least we'd be out, and it need not be the end of the process.

4) parliament doesn't get anything much done; there's an election; and Boris likely wins on a Brexit mandate with a purged Tory party.

5) parliament forces through another referendum, no doubt illogically sneaking remain back into the options. This is certainly the riskiest option for Brexiteers, but victory is hardly assured for remain.

So, all in all, not a reason to panic for Brexiteers, although the fifth option is nerve-racking. It will be terrible to go through it all again, especially knowing that even a loss for leave will entirely destroy the popular mandate and that leave doesn't have forces to ignore even such a loss, unlike remain the first time around (though a second defeat for them, I think will silence all but the most obstinate remainers).
azadi

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Reply with quote  #784 
Boris Johnson will likely agree with the EU on a deal, which will make Ulster part of an all-Ireland special economic zone. The DUP will likely accept it, because a majority of the Ulstermen support Irish unification according to recent opinion polls, and avoiding a hard border in Ireland is necessary in order to avoid Irish unification.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/20/boris-johnson-brexit-deal-brussels-dup

Peter

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Reply with quote  #785 
The Supreme Court has delivered its expected, determined well in advance of the case being heard ruling that the recent prorogation of Parliament was unlawful. Lying her aged backside off, Lady Hale said that the judgement was nothing to do with Brexit but was purely a matter of law. In reality, the so called justices, overwhelmingly Remainers, know that Boris Johnson's government is the last hope of Brexit actually happening, so detonated the largest possible bomb under it, not caring about the damage also wreaked to the constitution and the rule of law. Not to mention the credibility of the court, but the Remain side will hail the decision so loudly that its arrant unreasonableness will be sufficiently obscured. To the court's entire disgrace the decision was unanimous, unlike their earlier Brexit bomb which caused such damage.

The effect is as if the prorogation never took place, so that Parliament is actually in session right now, in the middle of the party conference season when it never is, with all the unfinished business set aside by the prorogation returning to its previous state. The Bercow creature is beside itself with pompous glee, the governance and politics of the country are in twice the mess they were before (which was already appalling), and the 2016 decision of the electorate further than ever from being implemented. Presumably the justices are all having a quiet drink together and congratulating themselves on a job well done.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #786 
I do agree with this article that this absurd ruling doesn't actually seem to change much:

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/09/johnson-has-lost-a-battle-and-room-for-manoevre-but-he-can-still-win-the-war-just.html

Johnson is still stuck in a bind. Either he gives in to parliament, and risks Brexit and probably the continued existence of the Tory party with it, or he defies parliament by breaking the law. Alternatively, he could just resign.
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #787 
A couple of articles on the end of the British Constitution, with the comments I wrote when I shared them on my blog.

The British Constitution has been destroyed! If the Reserve Powers of the Crown are justiciable, in reality there ARE no Reserve Powers. Red Tony Blair finally got what he wanted.

The United Kingdom Is No Longer a Constitutional Monarchy


As 'Archbishop Cranmer' said in the piece I shared earlier, The United Kingdom Is No Longer a Constitutional Monarchy. The Reserve Powers have been destroyed and the ancient Constitution destroyed.

The Supreme Court Ruling Will Have Consequences Far Beyond Johnson’s Premiership


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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Peter

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Reply with quote  #788 
I read both those with interest, as I did Wessexman's link above your post. From following that link today I found two further relevant and, I thought, well-argued articles, here and here, each of them showing how plainly partisan and wrong the court's decision was and exploring potential implications of the constitutional damage wreaked. There is a great deal of fuss in the media today about the intemperate scenes in the Commons yesterday, with the Prime Minister held to be greatly at fault for, er, using the same sort of language about his opponents as they consistently use about him. But I guess behaving extremely badly then being outraged at the other side doing the same thing but far less so has been a Remainer tactic all along. Seems to be working for them too.
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #789 
Another look at the judicial coup by which the Inglorious Revolution destroyed the Constitutional Monarchy.

This Immoral, Illegal Power Grab by Leftie Judges


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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
azadi

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Reply with quote  #790 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovan66102
Another look at the judicial coup by which the Inglorious Revolution destroyed the Constitutional Monarchy.

This Immoral, Illegal Power Grab by Leftie Judges


Claiming, that the constitutional monarchy of Great Britain has been destroyed is nonsense. Nobody is trying to abolish the British monarchy. I agree, that the decision of the Supreme Court concerning the prorogation is wrong, because prorogation is perfectly legal in Great Britain, and the prorogation was due to end before the Brexit deadline, so it was hardly an assault on British democracy.
But the royal prerogative being curtailed doesn't mean, that Great Britain ceases to be a constitutional monarchy. Japan and Sweden, where the monarchs have no executive powers at all, are still constitutional monarchies.
In order to restore constitutional legality to Great Britain, the Parliament ought to pass an act, which will ban prorogation without the consent of Parliament.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #791 
The justices have made an enormous alteration to the constitutional balance of powers in this country, elevating the legislature and, not incidentally, the judiciary far above the executive, which now apparently has to get specific permission from Parliament before it takes any action of any kind, and will then find any action it does take subject to review and overturn by the court. And they have done this without any mandate of any kind and based on no law or precedent, merely in order to obtain a short-term political goal which should be none of the court's concern. What is needed is not legislation to affirm what was indeed an illegal power grab, but legislation to overturn it and rein the court in from any such action in future.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #792 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The justices have made an enormous alteration to the constitutional balance of powers in this country, elevating the legislature and, not incidentally, the judiciary far above the executive, which now apparently has to get specific permission from Parliament before it takes any action of any kind, and will then find any action it does take subject to review and overturn by the court. And they have done this without any mandate of any kind and based on no law or precedent, merely in order to obtain a short-term political goal which should be none of the court's concern. What is needed is not legislation to affirm what was indeed an illegal power grab, but legislation to overturn it and rein the court in from any such action in future.

I agree, that the decision of the Supreme Court was wrong, because Boris Johnson didn't break the law by proroguing Parliament. But prorogation needing the consent of the parliament in the future doesn't sound as a bad idea, because prorogation can be misused by prime ministers to abuse their power. Boris Johnson did nothing wrong, because the Parliament would have convened for a new session before the Brexit deadline, but another Prime Minister might have prevented the Parliament from convening before October 31. If the Parliament had been prevented from convening before October 31, it would have been a blatant abuse of power.
The Parliament ought to repeal the Fixed-Term Parliament Act in order to prevent zombie parliaments from existing in the future. If the Parliament is unable to agree on anything, a general election ought to be held. Allowing Labour to prevent a general election for partisan reasons is wrong.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #793 
I totally agree on the iniquitous FTPA. I would not necessarily disagree with some kind of limitation being put on the power to prorogue without Parliamentary consent, it would all depend on how the limitation was specified. But this was never a matter the court should have been ruling on. Lady Hale actually introduced in argument the question of 'What if the prorogation had been for a year?' The government advocate should have stared back at her and said 'Well it wasn't, was it? And now can we continue considering the case at hand, rather than some imagined extreme.' In fact he did say something similar to that, albeit without the stare and more politely expressed. But in the end the whole ruling appears to have been largely based on Lady Hale's entirely spurious contention.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #794 
There is a limitation in the nature of prorogation, in that the government cannot pass laws or supply without parliament sitting. Even statuary instruments, which have nearly replaced bills, cannot, I believe, be passed. Some might say, that, generally, the less time for more laws to be passed, usually the better. Maybe, after Brexit is over, the parliament should be prorogued for three years, so we don't have to see the lot of them for that time.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #795 
Here is Boris Johnson's new plan for a Brexit deal: 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/02/boris-johnsons-brexit-alternative-to-the-irish-backstop-whats-new


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