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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #751 
I'm not a huge fan of Nigel Farage, but he did have a rather clever thing to say yesterday when he said Britain is now a nation of Lions led by donkeys.  [rofl]

Someone on Facebook compared Brexit era Britain to their cat, who meows incessantly to be let out, but when the door is opened for her, she sits in the doorway looking accusingly at her owner and refusing to exit.

Image result for Brexit

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Peter

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Reply with quote  #752 
It wasn't original with him. It dates back to the First World War, with Britain's armies being the lions and its generals the donkeys. Me, I would think the average donkey is likely to be a more reasonable, intelligent and equable creature than the average MP, and I wouldn't blame a donkey representative for braying in protest at the slur. The cat thing is clever, though it does leave out the owner's nasty little brat of a five-year-old son pulling at the poor creature's tail to stop it going out as it wanted. Perhaps our MPs should be called obnoxious infants rather than asses, though in the other sense they are that too.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #753 
To be fair, those who have most frequently and strongly called for us to leave are not those stopping us leaving now. It's the Europhiles, those who really wish to remain in the the EU, who are blocking us leaving.
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Reply with quote  #754 
I can't say that I agree. Certainly Euromaniac MPs, peers and judiciary did all they could to obstruct, delay and, they hoped, ultimately block implementation of the electorate's decision, but it is the extreme Europhobes who are most directly responsible for us not being out already. Starting with the treachery of the likes of Johnson, Davis and the truly contemptible Raab while in government, continuing with twice blocking the Prime Minister's deal on the grounds that it failed to be consonant in every respect with their ideological purity, and further continuing with their mixing in the present chaos.

It is true that the unstable and irresponsible Johnson and infantile Rees-Mogg held their noses and voted for the deal third time around, but it was too little too late and they failed to bring enough of their pack followers with them. Had they all been willing in the first place to accept an imperfect but attainable Brexit rather than the shining, impossible vision in what passes for their minds, we'd have been gone on 29th March. Now, it remains (ahem) to be seen whether we ever will be.

A special dishonourable mention for the DUP, who talk so loudly about the Union but actually care not a fig what happens to the country as a whole so long as they keep the whip hand in their little theocracy. Leave, remain, worst-of-all-worlds halfway house, they'll vote for anything that leaves them lording it over the province, and against anything, like the admittedly undesirable backstop, that seems to threaten their dominion. As for Labour and Corbyn's cynical power-grubbing, I won't go there as if I did I'd be here all day. A plague on every one of their houses, until they grow up and start to take some responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Or, in the present case, the disastrous inaction produced by their contrasting but equally blinkered ideologies.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #755 
There's a lot of truth in that, but I don't think you're quite allowing for how awful May's deal is. Those who claim it essentially leaves us half in the EU are largely correct. It leaves us subject to pretty much the entire economic regulation of the EU, and, yes, as critics note, now without any say. However, I don't think the latter is particularly meaningful, as we have never had much of an influence or say in the EEC/EU anyway. We've always been something of a minority of one, and hardly acted as a brake on integration, let alone stopped it. I can understand why the ERG would object to the deal, especially as May herself pledged that no deal is better than a bad deal. The EU is extremely unlikely to give us much better - not that I trust May to really work to get much more. But no deal seems to me far preferable to May's deal. The issue is not so much the ERG was blinded by a hardline position on Brexit. Their position is largely just that there should be a meaningful Brexit. Their real fault is misjudging the parliament and how strong the remainers still are there. Something like Mays deal seems the only Brexit likely to pass this (or the next, short of a well-deserved shake-up) parliament. It's bad, but at least it does officially take us out. That's a starting position. It will be almost impossible for remainers to undo that. From there we can try for better conditions. We may end up with cause to be glad that Corbyn of all people is Labour leader. Where a more Blairite Labour leader might work to stop any Brexit, I think Corbyn will ultimately not want to undermine Brexit entirely. I think the movement we have already seen of May reaching out to Corbyn will continue, and ultimately they will find an agreement. The only danger will be if Corbyn thinks his very leadership will be in danger if he helps to bring about Brexit.




I don't trust Johnson, but I think you're being a little unfair on Davis. My understanding is it was May who undermined him, basically deciding to substitute her own Brexit plan for his, without his prior knowledge, even though she'd appointed him Brexit minister. Mogg is a patriot, but he's too idealistic, appearing to naively think the remainers in parliament and the cabinet, and their allies in the establishment and media, can be shamed into supporting the referendum outcome and, often, their own prior pledges.
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #756 
With both Tories and Labour taking a beating from the Liberal Democrats in local elections, the sighs are increasingly that people are fed up with both parties.  Jeremy Corbyn is apparently saying that working out a Brexit agreement with the Tories is crucial now.  Somehow, I don't think getting a mediocre Brexit agreement between these two parties will help either of them now.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-local-elections-theresa-may-delay-gavin-williamson-mordaunt-a8895866.html

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #757 
All English results in the local elections have now been released, with ballots still being counted in Northern Ireland as of the last reprts:
 
  • The Conservatives have lost 1,269 councillors and lost control of 45 local authorities. The party managed to secure control of just 93 councils.
  • Labour, which had expected to make gains in the elections, lost 63 council seats and overall control of six councils.  The opposition party continues to have control in 60 local authorities.
  • The LIberal Democrats have done particularly well, gaining 676 council seats, for a total of 1,351.  The party won control of 18 councils, a rise of 11.
  • The Greens have also done well, winning 185 more seats, for a total of 265.
Overall it's not a very encouraging result for Brexiteers that the Lib Dems and the Greens did so well.  Yet it's unlikely that Remainers will be able to reverse Brexit.  

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #758 
It is hard to know what to make of these results. There wasn't really a pro-Brexit alternative to the sullied major parties, so I am not sure we can much definitive into these results. UKIP was the only option, but they are shambolic these days, and have some dubious connections*, and, besides, didn't even field candidates in many places. The Lib Dems were at historic lows prior to this election, so that should also be taken into account. They could hardly go down, though they do seem to have been able to again seem an alternative to Labour for some left-liberals. No doubt the remainers will try to spin these results as pro-remain, even though it seems Farage's Brexit Party is trouncing the competition in the polls for the Euro-elections. It is an open question which elections is more meaningful as regards the public mood on Brexit, or even if either of them are particularly representative.

* I consider Tommy Robinson thuggish and unsavoury, though he isn't actually a fascist or the equivalent of Nick Griffin. In the Euro-elections in my old area, the Southwest, one of the candidates is Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad. From what I have seen, his actual policy positions are unobjectionable - he's classical liberal, not far-right - but he's prone to saying provocative things for the sake of it. There's not letting the PC wokescolds determine what can be thought and said and then there's being insulting or vulgar just to get a reaction. Benjamin seems to have fallen into the last camp.
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #759 
The excruciatingly long farewell to Europe just seems to get longer and longer...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1127058/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Theresa-May-Brexit-delay-talks-latest-update

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2019/05/13/market-drift-brexit-unlikely/#1f714b6e165d

https://www.fxstreet.com/news/brexit-situation-continuing-to-deteriorate-deutsche-bank-201905140754

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/12/europe/europes-populist-nightmare-analysis-intl-gbr/index.html

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Peter

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Reply with quote  #760 
Well, I did something today I didn't think I'd ever have to do again. Voted in a European election. Choosing whom to vote for both was and wasn't easy. On the one hand, the main parties that aren't the Conservatives are all completely out of the question, as are the more prominent fringe and usually Brexit-focused parties. On the other, do I really want to vote for the utter stinking shambles that is the Conservative party today? Looking down the ballot paper, which was not short of options (albeit none of them were attractive options), I was briefly tempted by first the Animal Welfare Party and then the Women's Equality same.

Both are causes that I strongly sympathise with, but I reflected that the Animal Welfare mob were probably unbalanced obsessives with fruitcake views on just about every question, while I know nothing of the general platform of the Women's Equality people. So in the end I went for the Conservatives as the least bad choice. Not that they are not bad enough, and to spare.

I cannot, even in the darkest political days pre-Thatcher, ever remember the country's politics being in such a dismal state. The traditional governing parties, one or the other of which has been in charge my entire life, are both blatantly unfit to govern, and there are no remotely conscionable alternatives to them. The Conservatives are so divided no two of them would be able to agree that water is wet, and whoever the next leader turns out to be will be utterly unacceptable to large sections of the Parliamentary party, provoking at best a continuation of the present paralysis and at worst mass walk-outs, followed by the Conservative and Unionist Party dwindling into Lib-Dem style insignificance and inconsequence. And Labour are a clear and present danger to the country's liberty, security and prosperity. Oh well, at least the sun will still rise tomorrow. Though that's another thing you might have trouble getting any two Conservative MPs to agree on.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #761 
Every word here is true

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1070868973107337
Queenslander

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Reply with quote  #762 
Could be quite the telling speech there. Fingers crossed the UK gets out for good on the 31st October and then I can (even as an agnostic) and will pray to all the Saints for Britain to return to a state of true freedom.
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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #763 

This thread is one of the reasons I am glad that I am back.  It is good for my soul to see reasoned discourse on such a touchy subject.

 

Thank you to all who have contributed.


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azadi

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Reply with quote  #764 
The Democratic Unionist Party prevents a smooth Brexit by opposing a customs border in the Irish sea. The EU demands an open border in Ireland as a prerequisite for a deal, and Theresa May's proposed UK-wide customs union has triggered massive opposition in the Conservative Party. Boris Johnson opposes a UK-wide customs union. The Democratic Unionist Party holds the government hostage, because the government depends on the Democratic Unionist Party in order to keep its majority. I hope, that Boris Johnson calls a snap election in order to get rid of the Democratic Unionist Party.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #765 
That's an extremely simplistic and not at all accurate way of looking at a profoundly complex situation. I am no fan of the DUP and their squalid little theocracy myself, but they are far from the only actor involved in this. Also the view that the backstop proposal is unconscionable is by no means confined to them. Moving on, Parliament would normally be expected to briefly reconvene in September then go into recess for the party conference season, returning 10 days or so into October. It has been announced that Parliament will instead be prorogued, slightly earlier than the anticipated recess date, returning on 14th October for a Queen's Speech.

This is a manoeuvre by the Government to present an all-party cabal of MPs opposed to Brexit preventing the recess and thus giving themselves plenty of time to create obstructions. The point being that Parliament has to vote on a recess, whereas prorogation is the Queen's decision, advised as always by her ministers, and Parliament has no say in the matter. And the point of the Queen's Speech is that prorogation in advance of one is customary, in fact always happens. There is a court case currently proceeding and more in the works seeking a judicial decision that prorogation in current circumstances is unlawful, in anticipation of the Government doing that to stop the Commons blocking Brexit and thus finally thwarting the electorate's decision made oh so long ago and still unfulfilled. The courts of course are guaranteed to rule in favour of the petitioners, doesn't matter what the law is, most senior judges being convinced Remainers and never afraid to let their biases rule their decisions.

Putting a Queen's Speech into the mix is therefore a clever move, the precedents involved are so ironclad it would be a glaring abuse of judicial power to overturn them. Doesn't mean it won't happen but does make it less likely. The overall effect is that five anticipated business days will be removed from the Parliamentary timetable, which doesn't seem so big. But from the point of view of those plotting a legislative coup against the executive it is much more than that, they have lost several weeks they planned to gain through a move every bit as underhanded as what the Government has announced. The screaming has already started about naked abuse of the constitution, from those whose own plans for a naked abuse of the constitution have just run into a roadblock. It's regrettable of course that the Government's action was needed, but I rather admire the cleverness and decisiveness of it. Let's hope it works and we do at last get out.
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