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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #721 
I'm not arguing that the immediate proposal should be doing away with the Parliament, which we would probably lose and end up with a republic.   But let's look at the big picture because your betters certainly are.  A republic is the end game.   The end of Britain as an independent nation also is the end game.   The end of Christianity will also be an end game.  The end of the English people is an end game.   All good things must come to an end, eh?   This process is happening right now, it's the course we've been on for a few centuries, and could be achieved within this or the next century.   This is where democracy leads, by the nature of how it is manipulated by your betters.   This is why theorists like Locke foisted it on you.   He had a long-term vision and could play the long game.

So only focus on the little battles of the moment, but that won't be enough.  The system and over-arching goal for the long-term are rigged against you. 

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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #722 
So another referendum has been ruled out by parliament today.  Yesterday they ruled out a "No Deal Brexit".  This might mean Prime Minister May gets control of the process back and her deal might get another airing.  President Trump also attacked how the Brexit negotiations had gone, and Prime Minister May can't be pleased by that. Parliament has now also voted to delay Brexit.  Prime Minister May will now ask the E.U. for an extension. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/uk/article-50-extension-second-brexit-referendum-gbr-intl/index.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1100195/brexit-vote-latest-brexit-delay-vote-theresa-may-house-of-commons

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-vote-result-delay-referendum-article-50-theresa-may-eu-commons-latest-updates-a8822176.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/uk/article-50-extension-second-brexit-referendum-gbr-intl/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/world/europe/brexit-vote-amendment-referendum.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47572703

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #723 
So, essentially, Brexit is dead in the water. With the Remainiac, Treason May, in charge, Britain is shackled to the Fourth Reich.
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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #724 
Ask yourself why Merkel, Macron, and May act against their national interest and seem to despise their own people.   Whose interest are they serving?   Compare them to the regimes in Italy, Hungary, Austria, Poland, and the Czech republic.  They are robustly for their own people and seem to care about their country.  
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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #725 
Jovan,

Perhaps not. I may have it wrong, but I believe none of these motions changes the legislation in place. Britain is still set to leave the EU, deal or no deal, in two weeks.

My advice to the ERG is to back May's deal. It's bad, but the alternative seems to be a delayed and, perhaps, betrayed Brexit. They can perhaps exact some concessions, perhaps up to May's resignation. After we are officially out the EU can come the reckoning. The party membership is firmly Eurosceptic and Leave. Local associations have already voted no confidence in three of the remainer plotters. This must continue, and deselections must begin. The party must never be in this position again. Time to purge the oxymoronic Europhile Tories. Bercow, who unconstitutionally connived with the likes of Grieve, must go as speaker (and hopefully he is deselected as well).
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #726 
One consideration that has occurred to me is that the EU don't actually want us back. Certainly, they will want to punish us to set an example, and the whole project model is built on not giving up power once taken by Brussels. But Britain has always been something of a nuisance to them. We've always been seen as foot dragging on integration and not sufficiently communautaire (despite the fact we are far less self-seeking than most other members, especially France and the Southern European nations). Unless there is something like another referendum with just clean leave versus remain options, convincingly won by remain, our awkwardness in the community is now going to increase exponentially. We will have voted clearly to leave and this will have been betrayed. How can any government, even a Europhile one, go back to the status quo of the likes of Major or Blair in dealing with the EU after that? Surely, Britain can never agree to more integration again.* The EU may well think it's better just to get rid of us.

* Unfortunately, the EU already has vast competencies decided on qualified majority voting, which means there are many areas, from social policy to energy, which we can be forced to integrate further without any veto.
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #727 
EU delenda est.
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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #728 
It's also interesting that Merkel-Macron-May are all childless.  
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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
Peter

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Reply with quote  #729 
I can't see any kind of moral imperative to have children that's applicable to these individuals. And of course some people can't, however much they might want to. So I don't think childlessness is a fair reproach to bring. I don't think it's fair either to accuse Mrs May of being a Remainer seeking to undermine Britain's departure. She seems to me to have done everything she possibly could to bring it about, but has herself been undermined and backstabbed at every turn by both wings of her own party.

I have no idea where we will go from here, with a governing party hopelessly divided against itself, an opposition party completely unfit for government, an irresponsible rabble masquerading as the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and the EU tut-tutting sympathetically while refusing to modify its positions and demands one iota. Nowhere good, I suspect. An election very probably would give us another hung parliament, so we would be no further forward. If what should be called the 'nullify the people's vote' campaign got its wish, chances are good they would get their further wish and we would be back exactly where we were in 2016 pre-vote. Except without a functioning government. The profound damage rerunning the referendum would do to democratic principles and the whole structure of government in this country is another question.

I do know where we don't go from here, which is back to absolute monarchy. We've never had one yet, so can't go back to it. And the probability of our going forward, if you want to think of it that way, to absolute monarchical rule is beyond infinitesimal. Happily. An attempt by our monarchy to emulate the unwise course taken by Alexander III and Nicholas II could only end as Romanov rule did, bloody revolution and the end of the monarchy altogether. Though I admit it is tempting to think that just about anything might work better than our government does at present, this particular option is not one that can sensibly be considered.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #730 
We don't know why they don't have children. If they are married (as I believe they all are), but chose not when they could, then that is morally problematic.

May was a remainer, and she has always been Blue Labour. This is the woman who came up with the nasty party tag and teamed up on social liberal legislation with Harriett Harman. But it's hard to see if she's letting remain sympathies guide her now. She does seem to have done a backflip on her earlier claim that no deal was better than a bad one (let alone, presumably, staying in). But it could be her vanity over her legacy, now almost entirely summed up by her deal with the EU. I do think her swinging behind the remain over no deal has been pivotal. If she had kept her original pledge, we'd probably be set to leave on 29th March.

I'm not sure even a second referendum could settle much. Those pushing it seem to want a vote on May's deal versus remain. But that doesn't necessarily solve the leave versus remain issue. For a start, I have encountered quite a few who think remain is better than May's deal, because the latter surrenders so much so as to almost keep us in the EU, but with no voting rights. I don't quite agree with this (though there's a certain truth in it), but who's to say that a narrow remain victory against May's deal means an overall remain victory against leave in general?
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #731 
Mrs. May's biggest mistake was undermining herself with that ill timed election and badly run campaign that saw her emerge with a reduced mandate.  I think Brexiteers have blinded themselves to what a "No Deal Brexit" will mean and the really real societal stresses it will cause.  At the same time the Remainers need to realize that they blew it, and throwing roadblocks in the way of a Brexit deal is only making things worse.  I don't think there is any going back, and they should realize that.  I am not a great fan of the Prime Minister, but the only sane solution is to approve her deal and proceed to an orderly exit from the European Union.  Otherwise, the "No Dealers" and "Remainers" will have no one but themselves to blame when it all falls apart.
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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #732 
The E.U. is giving Prime Minister May some breathing room by allowing her an extension on Brexit to the end of June.  It is conditional however on her deal being approved though.  Hopefully this gives the Brexiteers the needed push to approve her flawed plan.  No one will be happy, but he alternative is potential chaos.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1102597/Brexit-news-latest-theresa-may-Michel-Barnier-article-50-delay-Leave-EU

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/20/brexit-latest-news-theresa-may-wont-seek-long-delay-article/

Do the Prime Minister's political woes translate to a weakened political position against another Scottish referendum?  Do they threaten the continued place of Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/opinions/the-uk-cutting-off-constitutional-limbs-opinion-intl-gbr/index.html

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #733 
Quote:
We don't know why they don't have children. If they are married (as I believe they all are), but chose not when they could, then that is morally problematic.


You want your people or tribe to do the responsible thing: get married, have children, raise them well.   That's the future.   People who choose not to when they can are decadent, but they will also be an end to their lineage and their role in the gene pool.   Perhaps that will suffice.   But I don't know if I want them leading us.

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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
DutchMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #734 
I for one don't see how people can be decadent for making such a decision at all. It is a matter of personal freedom how you lead your life, and there will be a future even if a part of the population does not have children.

I do believe that it can be problematic if a whole society does not have enough children for a long period of time, but that is something that can be addressed by clever policies. And I'm not even talking about massive handouts for people with children then (I guess that's an option too, just not one I like myself). You can support people who want to have children by making them pay less taxes, creating an environment in which there are good facilities for children, and so forth. But such positive support for people with children is very different from stigmatizing people who don't have children. I wouldn't want people to start having children because society considers them to be decadent otherwise - how could that ever lead to happy families? Nor do I believe we should want everyone to have children - a population which grows too fast could be just a problematic as one that shrinks. It's a matter of finding a good balance.
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #735 
When I hear young, healthy, educated people say they don't want to have children so that they can live a carefree life of travel, pursuing a career, going to coffee shops, etc., I think this is decadence.   I subordinate personal freedom to what is good for one's people and civilization.  
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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
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