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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #616 
The DUP are more socially conservative than the "mainland" UK parties although in economic policies they have been somewhat more on the interventionist side. Where they differ from Ulster Unionists is in social base - traditionally urban working-class Protestants on one hand (of various religious affiliations), and rural fundamentalist Protestants who were often affiliated to Ian Paisley's Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, itself quite distinct from orthodox Presbyterianism. In recent times, they've tried to reach out to Catholics and other believers - I know for one there are Jews who are members of the DUP as well.

But is the DUP really any different from parties the Tories ally with on a European and international level? Parties such as (based on ECR/ACRE affiliation):
- Law and Justice (Poland): socially conservative, nationalist
National Alliance (Latvia): socially conservative, nationalist, has links to Estonian and Ukrainian nationalists
- Conservative Party (Georgia): its leader has talked of restoring the monarchy
Croatian Conservative Party (Croatia): led by MEP and former Toronto police officer Ruza Tomasic, who has made some controversial statements
- Bulgaria Without Censorship (Bulgaria): Nikolay Barekov wants to restore the monarchy; VMRO-BND (Bulgaria): advocates a "Greater Bulgaria" including Macedonia
- Danish People's Party (Denmark): conservative, Eurosceptic, critical of immigration and Islam
True Finns (Finland): conservative, Eurosceptic, critical of immigration and Islam
- SGP (Netherlands): religious conservative, somewhat Euroseptic, critical of Islam

Not very different from the DUP in many ways, except for religion of course!
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #617 
There seems to be two areas of contention over the DUP. On social policies, it seems to depend on whether you are socially conservative or liberal. Social liberals, confident in media support, were always going to attack May here, but I don't think, though I'm no expert, the DUP are beyond the normal range of social conservatism in Britain or Europe. The other issue is links to violence during the troubles.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #618 
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/816425/DUP-Brexit-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-EU-Europe-Brussels-European-Union-Ireland

The DUP looks like they will demand a "hard" Brexit which is good.

In fact, the DUP is not the party of the paramilitaries. The political wing of the UVF is the Progressive Unionist Party (PUP), which is very much left-of-centre. The UDA once had the UDP and now the Ulster Political Research Group (UPRG) which is not a party but advocates on behalf of loyalists.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #619 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/greg-sheridan/uk-election-mays-future-bound-to-torture-from-the-monsters-of-ulster/news-story/0f61ff7ffd63e5914fb141573bf0a860

I hate to share this, but as a friend pointed out, we can see Greg Sheridan's appalling ethnic-based bias and contempt for the (Protestant) people of Northern Ireland show here. It's become fashionable to demonise NI Protestants in the same way it's become fashionable to demonise, in general, white British, Australian, South African et al people.

Typical of this is a grossly exaggerated or even false claim that Catholics were brutally persecuted by the British state. Here we see a lie repeated ad nauseum by nationalists and Republicans. Compare this to the very real ethnic and religious-based persecution of Ukrainian Catholics by Stalin (a reason I can't side with Russia on the Ukraine issue) among others.

The same sort of animus is evident among Muslim commentators Waleed Aly and Yassmin Abdel-Magied (who may not, strictly-speaking, be Islamists but they are in fact helping their agenda). They too have a barely-concealed contempt for the dominant culture and repeat the lie that Muslims are "victims" of Western "imperialism" and "racism". While actual persecution of Muslims on ethnic and religious grounds by Communists (Soviet Union, China, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Mozambique) or even by Islamists (Iran) is wilfully and conspicuously ignored.

DavidV

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Reply with quote  #620 
The true colours of the SNP. They're disgusting:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/scottish-tories-lambast-snp-over-murdered-soldiers-1-8008801
Peter

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Reply with quote  #621 
That is pretty appalling. A party leader's resignation following the election has been announced, but it's not Theresa May. It's Tim Farron, Liberal Democrat leader. His problem was that his views on social issues didn't appear to be very, er, liberal. He was repeatedly questioned on this during the campaign and as repeatedly gave evasive answers before finally breaking down and, rather too late, speaking frankly. If he had done so earlier and given as acceptable an answer then his leadership might have continued, but as things were he was already damaged goods. Incidentally, he might like to look up the meaning of the word theological and its relation to the word ethical. But then he probably knows it and preferred not to use the correct choice from the two, as it would not have justified his earlier obfuscations in the way he was seeking to do.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #622 
This Catholic priest actually gets it:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-shares-similar-values-with-catholic-church-priest-35819303.html
Peter

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Reply with quote  #623 
This priest is absolutely right. And that is exactly where the problem lies.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #624 
So you will dismiss as well the Tories' European-level allies in Poland, Latvia, Slovakia et al who subscribe to similar values even if they're of a different religion? Those values happen to be my values and that of other form members too.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #625 
I think they, you, the DUP and the Catholic Church are all in the wrong on these questions. Which isn't dismissing anyone, it's just disagreeing with certain someones.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #626 
They are Christian, conservative and patriotic virtues perfectly normal in Eastern Europe and the Balkans among other places. You can't dismiss them as invaluable allies in the fight for civilisation.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #627 
I do not consider them to be virtues. I have however already indicated that despite my dislike of the DUP's views on certain questions I am not unwilling to see an alliance between that party and the Government in order that government business can carry on, and especially so that the exit process can continue. So I repeat, I am not dismissing anyone.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #628 
Patriotism is a virtue as is defending a Christian civilisation.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #629 
Farron seemed to separate his personal beliefs from his political views on social questions. He towed the party line when it came to public policy. Apparently, one can't even dissent personally from left-liberal orthodoxy, at least not if one is in a public position.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #630 
You didn't say originally that patriotism is a virtue, and I didn't deny that it is. I'd rather defend post-Christian civilisation myself, though. Which is not the same as attacking Christianity, it's just saying that I don't want Christianity (or any organised religion) put back in charge of affairs. It has and always ought to have a place in British national life, so much of our history being bound up with it, but should not have the final say on any destiny except its own.
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