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royalcello

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Statehood Showdown At Iolani Palace

Aug 19, 2006 02:41 AM

Kealii Collier
Kealii Collier
State Sen. Sam Slom
State Sen. Sam Slom

By Stephen Florino

HONOLULU (KHNL)- A day of celebration turned into one of confrontation.

As dozens tried to honor Hawaii's statehood, many more showed up to put an end to the party. The protesters were Native Hawaiian groups, fighting against what they say was the illegal overthrow of the monarchy.

The statehood celebration was on the grounds of Iolani Palace.

"We found that it was extremely disrespectful, and ignorant and arrogant all at the same time," said Kealii Collier, one of the protestors.

State Senator Sam Slom organized the event. He said recently, that historic day 47-years ago hasn't been celebrated the way it should've been.

"People have been afraid to come out and express their pride in America," said Slom. "Even today, there were threats against the high school band here, people that were here."

Slom says he wanted the celebration on the grounds of Iolani Palace because that's where Hawaii was proclaimed a state.

Native Hawaiians felt it was disrespectful because the palace served as home to the Hawaiian monarchy, and prison to Queen Liliuokalani.

"The people who imprisoned her were the Americans of that time," said Collier. "And Americans of this time are continuing the same imprisonment."

There were numerous confrontations between both groups. But no one was hurt or arrested.

"That's what it's all about -- America and free speech, " said Slom. "That's why we're proud to be American. Proud to be in Hawaii, and why people fought for more than three decades for statehood."

Slom says he was not surprised or disappointed, but felt some of the protestors were not courteous. He says the celebration was not meant to be disrespectful, but to mark an historic event.

Statehood day is celebrated on the third Friday in August.

The official day Hawaii became a part of the union was August 21, 1959.


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WhiteCockade

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Email the Senator at:

senslom@capitol.hawaii.gov

 

I plan too


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BaronVonServers

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Sounds as bad as the IRA holding a ceramony at a Royal Residence in Lower Ireland...

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SupremeDirector

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The IRA are a legit force. England had no right to enter Ireland, nor do they have any rights to Northern Ireland. Even though I am a Monarchist, I'd rather see all of Ireland as a united republic, than divided and under the control of the British heretics.
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"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)
royalcello

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeDirector
The IRA are a legit force.


The IRA are a leftist revolutionary criminal organization that murdered thousands of innocent civilians, including Lord Mountbatten and his 14-year-old grandson in 1979.  The Catholic Church teaches that intrinsically evil means may not be used even in pursuit of legitimate ends.  There is nothing "Catholic" about the IRA or Sinn Fein; in fact, most Irish republicans are basically Marxists who support abortion and the rest of the un-Catholic leftist agenda.

Now the only member I've ever banned from this forum was a Paisleyite viciously anti-Catholic Protestant, so I obviously don't have much tolerance for that kind of bigotry.  But support for the IRA is not welcome here either!
royalcello

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers
Sounds as bad as the IRA holding a ceramony at a Royal Residence in Lower Ireland...


Which is it that you think is "bad"---the statehood celebration, or the protest against the statehood celebration?

My own sympathies are with the Hawaiian nationalists in this case, as I would think those of most monarchists would be.  The overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy and the U.S. annexation of Hawaii (opposed by President Grover Cleveland) were indeed shameful acts.   I wish Hawaii's success, on the condition that their agenda include the restoration of the monarchy; the last thing the world needs is yet another new republic.
BaronVonServers

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My point was that the force who expelled the Monarch, whee 'celebrating' act, on Royal Property,  I didn't meen to touch a sectarian nerve.

The American's used Armed Force to compel the abdication of the Hawai'ian Queen.  To hold a 'Statehood Celebration', at the scene of the Crime no less, is in bad taste, to say the least.

Uh, the Celebration is what I find to be 'Bad', especially in that location.

Hopefully, still inside the rules, let me say that I think the Religious Toleration Acts, as required by the Treaty of 1763, (articles IV and XX), would have, if implemented in Ireland, made the situtation there much less 'fractiuous'.  Granted, the Angelican Church remained Established, but other than the bar to the Throne itself, no other exclusions of Catholics were permitted in the Floridas during the British Rule.

There are at least two competing 'royal governments' in the Kingdom of Hawaii, and even worse than in France, their is no 'legitimate' Hier to the Throne, as the new Monarch was Elected from among the old monarch's heirs by the Nobility (according to the last monarachial constitution), with out the Nobility meeting to select the replacement, their is no way to determine which lines would even be 'in the running' for the selection to establish a new Monarch.  (we are now three or four generations down the expanding family tree).



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SupremeDirector

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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
Now the only member I've ever banned from this forum was a Paisleyite viciously anti-Catholic Protestant, so I obviously don't have much tolerance for that kind of bigotry.  But support for the IRA is not welcome here either!

Point taken. Although I still disagree vehemently, I will keep quiet on the issue, since I enjoy participating on this forum.


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Long Live The King, Long Live Louis XX!

"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)


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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeDirector
The IRA are a legit force.


The IRA are a leftist revolutionary criminal organization that murdered thousands of innocent civilians, including Lord Mountbatten and his 14-year-old grandson in 1979.  The Catholic Church teaches that intrinsically evil means may not be used even in pursuit of legitimate ends.  There is nothing "Catholic" about the IRA or Sinn Fein; in fact, most Irish republicans are basically Marxists who support abortion and the rest of the un-Catholic leftist agenda.

Now the only member I've ever banned from this forum was a Paisleyite viciously anti-Catholic Protestant, so I obviously don't have much tolerance for that kind of bigotry.  But support for the IRA is not welcome here either!
 
Royalcello,
 
As you know, I'm an integralist, Traditionalist Catholic. I wish to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your statement above! The IRA is a direct outgrowth of the Fenian Brotherhood and the Irish Republican Brotherhood, the former of which was founded by the Grand Lodge of Ireland (along with the Orange Order) to foment trouble. The Church has condemned the IRA since its inception. I do however, support an unified, 32 County Ireland under Catholic auspices and work and pray that it may be under a Catholic King who accepts the Social Teaching of Holy Mother Church!


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I'm a protestant in much of my beliefs and I find the IRA to be a terrible organization. I think the problem is with both groups at heart. Christ said love your neighbor as yourself  and there's none of that going on in Ireland or is that taken in account into any of these disputes.

 

As for the Hawaiians, I hope the nationalists manage to reclaim their independence someday.

BaronVonServers

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Jovan661102,

Ireland was never unified under any Crown other than that of England, and later that of the United Kingdom. 

Could you support a restoration of the Single Monarchy, to all of Ireland, if were under a the Former Crown, if that crown accepted the MORAL teachings of the Roman Church?  And that Crown also granted and maintained Freedom of Conscience?

SupremeDirector,

If you accept the power of the Pope to grant such rights, the Norman English were 'authorized' to take Ireland by Pope Adrian IV.  Seems the pope wanted to make good Catholics out of the Heretics (Celtic Christians), and the Norman Kings were seen as 'good supporters' of the Church at that time.


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M. le Baron,
 
First of all my name is actually Jovan. Please feel free to use it.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers
Jovan661102,

Ireland was never unified under any Crown other than that of England, and later that of the United Kingdom. 

Could you support a restoration of the Single Monarchy, to all of Ireland, if were under a the Former Crown, if that crown accepted the MORAL teachings of the Roman Church?  And that Crown also granted and maintained Freedom of Conscience?

 
I would have no problem with it if the House of Windsor were to completely accept Catholic moral teaching. Of course, since this would require the Establishment of the Roman Catholic Church (vide the "Syllabus of Errors" of Blessed Pope Pius IX), I think both the House of Windsor and the Imperial Parliament might have a few problems with it.
 
And depending on your definition of "Freedom of Conscience" I might have a problem with that. If you mean the right of heretics to worship privately, I do not, but if you mean that all religions are to be treated equally by the State, I would, since that also violates the moral teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
Also, to paraphrase your signature, "I am NOT an authorised representative of Irish opinion." Even if the House of Windsor converted tomorrow, I don't think that the overwhelming majority of Irishmen would ever accept them. The memories of the sufferings during the penal times are not forgotten.
 
BTW, FYI, the Syllabus of Errors can be accessed at:
 
BaronVonServers

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Thanks for the reply. 

Of course I did not mean acceptance of all the Church's Dogma and Discipline by 'Moral Teachings', a term too vague, as I can now see, though your reply actually gave me the answer:  You'd not be content any existing Monarchy.

Thanks also for the link.

Request for input from others as well, if the 'Rule' doesn't bar it:  Does this actually mean that the Catholic Church still teaches that it should be the state religion, and only acceptable religion everywhere?  This is the first that I've heard of that....

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SupremeDirector

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers
SupremeDirector,
If you accept the power of the Pope to grant such rights, the Norman English were 'authorized' to take Ireland by Pope Adrian IV.  Seems the pope wanted to make good Catholics out of the Heretics (Celtic Christians), and the Norman Kings were seen as 'good supporters' of the Church at that time.

The Pope has the right to give certain lands to different Orders in the Church, has the right to enthrone kings, but does not have the right to order the kings of one country to forcefully take over and purge another country. That was a Pope working within a temporal sphere incorrectly, but not within the spiritual sphere. If the order was given from the Chair of St. Peter, then I would accept it, however seeing as it was not, I do not.


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"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #15 
I think that under the 'rules of the age', the authorization from the Pope would count as having given the Normans the right to invade, at least in the eyes of Catholic Europe.  

I think I'm saying that the Normans HAD the right to invade, on the orders and permission of the Pope, like the UNILF has the 'right' to occupy south Lebanon on the orders and permission of the UN.  Not an intrinsic right, but one based on near universal recognition.  In other words, as long as most peoples and powers thought that the Pope had the right to approve this invasions, then he did in fact have them. 

There was no UN back then, the Pope took on the role of arbitrator amongst Kings, and like the UN, wasn't always heeded, but was universally accepted as the 'lawful judge'.

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