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DavidV

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Posts: 5,100
Reply with quote  #136 
It may have had more of an effect in a political, social and cultural sense, the acceptance of modernist premises in our Church. Apart from its role in fighting Communism and also supporting the independence of East Timor, there has been much to be disappointed in our church over the last half a century. In my local church, worship has degenerated into guitar masses and video screens- the very things you'd rather not want in a Catholic Church (or most others). That's enough to turn mainstream conservatives into traditionalists.

Religious liberty is the other issue. Ecumenism is something I'm rather more pragmatic about- primarily because of the necessity of working with other Christians against a common and dangerous enemy.
JohnAnthonyMarie

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Reply with quote  #137 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Was Vatican II doctrine or discipline, though? In what way did it change the core teachings that Catholics must believe?


To determine this very question, I prepared a comparison (of sorts).  I thought that if I were to compare the teachings of the Church prior to and after the Second Vatican Council, there should be nothing in the post Vatican II theology and practice that would contradict teachings of the Church prior to the council.  So on my homepage I provide (in brief) a chronology of Church teaching in the 100 years prior to the Second Vatican Council.

http://TraditionalCatholic.net

So, if you do not mind, you tell me; Has the modern Catholic Church taught or practiced anything contrary to her most recent past?
Bill_McEnaney

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Reply with quote  #138 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAnthonyMarie
So, if you do not mind, you tell me; Has the modern Catholic Church taught or practiced anything contrary to her most recent past?

Maybe be not, but today's religiously indifferent ecumenism conflicts with Pius IX in his Syllabus of Errors.  In fact, Pius XI condemns that ecumenism in Mortalium Animos (http://www.ewtn.com/library/encyc/p11morta.htm), the encyclical from which I quoted paragraphs 7-12 in the thread called "Tridentine Mass."
Peter

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Reply with quote  #139 
You're the sedevacantist and presumably already know the answer, so you tell me.  As far as I know, Catholic ecumenism is the same as it always was: churches not in submission to it are free to submit. Holding a civil dialogue with other churches, and indeed faiths, does not indicate willingness to compromise with them.
Bill_McEnaney

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Reply with quote  #140 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
You're the sedevacantist and presumably already know the answer, so you tell me.  As far as I know, Catholic ecumenism is the same as it always was: churches not in submission to it are free to submit. Holding a civil dialogue with other churches, and indeed faiths, does not indicate willingness to compromise with them.

I'm beginning to wonder whether I misinterpreted some parts of Pius XI's encyclical called Mortalium Animos, because Pius XII does allow some interreligious discussions between Catholics and non-Catholics.  But he wouldn't allow meetings like the ones John Paul II chaired in Assisi and wouldn't want non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFECUM.HTM

He would condemn what Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich saw or thought she saw in a vision.

Quote:
"I saw many pastors cherishing dangerous ideas against the Church. . . . They built a large, singular, extravagant church which was to embrace all creeds with equal rights: Evangelicals, Catholics, and all denominations, a true communion of the unholy with one shepherd and one flock. There was to be a Pope, a salaried Pope, without possessions. All was made ready, many things finished; but, in place of an altar, were only abomination and desolation. Such was the new church to be, and it was for it that he had set fire to the old one; but God designed otherwise."

--from Life and Revelations of Anne Catherine Emmerich, Vol. 2, pp. 352-353

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