Monarchy Forum
Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 5 of 9     «   Prev   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   Next   »
azadi

Registered:
Posts: 387
Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
Because invading the territory of other nations unprovoked is illegal and not what civilised nations do. I wouldn't trust the EU. Look how they acted in the so called Turbot War. But an actual invasion of British territory is likely a step too far, even for them. The same goes for NATO. NATO supports its members if they are invaded, but presumably wouldn't if they launched aggressive attacks for no good reason. This is not how Western alliances usually work today. This isn't 1914.

The EU will want to punish us, or at least look like they are doing so, simply for leaving. The whole point of the EU is power goes to the centre and is never returned. I don't think no deal has much to do with it. I also don't think they will seek to punish us by supporting naked acts of aggression. I have a low opinion of Brussels, but not that low.

What if the EU recognizes the Spanish claim to Gibraltar before a Spanish invasion of Gibraltar? The EU recognizing the Spanish claim to Gibraltar will be perfectly legitimate due to Gibraltar being a UN-designated non-self-governing territory. If the EU recognizes the Spanish claim to Gibraltar, a Spanish invasion of Gibraltar will not be considered an act of aggression.
But if a no deal Brexit happens, British rule of Gibraltar will become unsustainable, because Gibraltar is entirely dependent on trade with Spain and on Spanish commuters. Great Britain will be forced to hand over Gibraltar to Spain without an invasion taking place. 
Wessexman

Registered:
Posts: 1,268
Reply with quote  #62 
You are living in a fantasy land. The EU may try to pressure Britain, but it will hardly countenance Spanish aggression. That isn't how Western countries deal with each other.

You also don't seem to understand what no deal means. It doesn't mean all trade stops between Britain and the EU. It simply means that tariffs and customs checks are reinstated. This would make trade more costly for Gibraltar, but not stop it. Of course, Spain could launch a embargo of its trade with Gibraltar, but that is distinct from the basic effects of no deal. It may also violate WTO rules. I'm not sure. I would wonder if such a move would be likely to better endear Gibraltarans to Spain.
Ethiomonarchist

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,270
Reply with quote  #63 
This conversation has degenerated into pure fantasy.  Spain is not going to invade Gibraltar, the EU is not going to impose sanctions or go to war against the United Kingdom.  All these "what ifs" are just ridiculous.  

What if the United States goes to war against Denmark to forcibly take over Greenland which is desired by our "Dear Leader"?  Will the EU go to war against the United States, but NATO also attack both member countries causing everyone to attack everyone? 

__________________
The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
azadi

Registered:
Posts: 387
Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist
This conversation has degenerated into pure fantasy.  Spain is not going to invade Gibraltar, the EU is not going to impose sanctions or go to war against the United Kingdom.  All these "what ifs" are just ridiculous.  

What if the United States goes to war against Denmark to forcibly take over Greenland which is desired by our "Dear Leader"?  Will the EU go to war against the United States, but NATO also attack both member countries causing everyone to attack everyone? 

Comparing Gibraltar to Greenland makes no sense. Greenland has never been part of the USA, and Greenland was removed from the UN list of non-self-governing territories, when the Greenlanders were granted the right to vote in elections to the Danish parliament in 1953. The EU will obviously introduce sanctions against the USA, if the USA invades Greenland. I have never mentioned NATO, when speaking of Gibraltar, and I have never claimed, that the EU will go to war against Great Britain over Gibraltar, but I won't rule out the EU introducing sanctions against Great Britain, if Great Britain goes to war over Gibraltar after a no deal Brexit.
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 7,032
Reply with quote  #65 
The UN list of non-self-governing territories is entirely and in every way meaningless. It has no rigour at all, territories that any reasonable person would consider self-governing are on the list and territories that no reasonable person would consider self-governing are not. The only rule appears to be whether the UN gaggle of dictators and demagogues likes the sovereign power or not. That deprives it of any potential moral force, and it is also meaningless because it has no legal force of any kind. So kindly shut up about it. And the US is about as likely to invade Greenland as Brobdingnag is to invade Lilliput.
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 7,032
Reply with quote  #66 
I'm right on both points. And several more I forbore to make, out of sheer weariness at correcting the same idiocies over and over again.

PS Azadi originally replied to my #65, quoting the lot as is his wont even though it was immediately above, just saying 'You are right about Greenland'. And this post was a reply to that, which he has since deleted. I mention this in case people think I've gone as nutty as him, replying to nothing.
azadi

Registered:
Posts: 387
Reply with quote  #67 
I admire Francisco Franco and Vladimir Putin. Putin and Franco are both conservative nationalists and staunch anti-imperialists. I support the elimination of colonialism and imperialism. We Kurds support the worldwide struggle for decolonization and national self-determination. As previously mentioned, Great Britain must support Kurdish independence from Iraq in order to atone for robbing Turkey of South Kurdistan. 
Wessexman

Registered:
Posts: 1,268
Reply with quote  #68 
I'm beginning to think that there is some trolling going on here.
azadi

Registered:
Posts: 387
Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
I'm beginning to think that there is some trolling going on here.

Why do you consider anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism to be trolling? It's understandable, that you associate anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism with leftism, but I'm a conservative Kurdish nationalist. I support anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism, because every nation ought to be independent. Subjecting a nation to foreign rule is immoral. Anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism aren't incompatible with monarchism. Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia was a staunch anti-colonialist.  The British members of the forum being unwilling to acknowledge the fact, that Great Britain committed a crime against my nation by making it part of Iraq, disappoints me.
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 7,032
Reply with quote  #70 
The idea that Franco, who spent his early manhood slaughtering Moroccan insurgents against Spanish colonialism and made his fame doing so, was an anti-imperialist is beyond laughable. Personally, I've started to wonder if Azadi might be some kind of bot. His illogic and his ignorance are remarkable enough for it.
azadi

Registered:
Posts: 387
Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The idea of Franco, who spent his early manhood slaughtering Moroccan insurgents against Spanish colonialism and made his fame doing so, was an anti-imperialist is beyond laughable. Personally, I've started to wonder if Azadi might be some kind of bot. His illogic and his ignorance are remarkable enough for it.

When I claim, that Franco was an anti-colonialist, I'm only speaking of Gibraltar. Gibraltar is a relic of the British Empire. Franco wasn't an anti-imperialist elsewhere (but he did after all return Spanish Morocco to the Kingdom of Morocco in 1956, and he granted Equatorial Guinea independence in 1968). I admire Franco because he restored the Spanish monarchy and saved Spain from Communism, not because he was an anti-imperialist.
Despite Spain having the strongest claim to Gibraltar, the return of Gibraltar to Spain isn't of urgent importance, because the current inhabitants of Gibraltar is satisfied with living under British rule.
Putin is far more anti-imperialist than Franco was, because he consistently opposes imperialism and colonialism. He reunified Crimea with Russia in accordance with the wishes of the majority of the Crimeans, he is willing to return Shikotan and Habomai to Japan, he supports Kurdish independence from Iraq, he supports the Spanish claim to Gibraltar, he supports the Argentine claim to the Falkland Islands (I disagree with Putin on the Falkland Islands) and he supports the Chagos Islanders, who were expelled from their homeland by Great Britain in order to make room for a US military base.
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 7,032
Reply with quote  #72 
Franco's relinquishment of Spanish Morocco was with the utmost reluctance and only because he had absolutely no choice in the matter. I don't know about Equatorial Guinea and can't be bothered to look it up, but I expect something similar applies. Franco's claim to Gibraltar had no legal basis of any kind and was contrary to the wishes of the inhabitants. Sounds more imperialist than the reverse to me. To mention another hobbyhorse of yours, Franco was also a vigorous suppressor of minority languages, actually making it illegal for any child born in Spain to be given a name other than in Castilian Spanish among many other oppressive measures.

Putin as an anti-imperialist? Only if anti-imperialism consists of bullying, threatening and even invading neighbouring countries, sending murder squads into others to kill exiled dissidents, and illicitly meddling in foreign countries' election processes. He has not returned Shikotan and Habomai to Japan in all his years in power, and I am willing to bet he will not. And as I have pointed out before, he was a little boy when this 'offer' for which you give him so much credit was first made. As for the Kurds, I find myself caring less about their fate with every post you make.
azadi

Registered:
Posts: 387
Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Franco's relinquishment of Spanish Morocco was with the utmost reluctance and only because he had absolutely no choice in the matter. I don't know about Equatorial Guinea and can't be bothered to look it up, but I expect something similar applies. Franco's claim to Gibraltar had no legal basis of any kind and was contrary to the wishes of the inhabitants. Sounds more imperialist than the reverse to me. To mention another hobbyhorse of yours, Franco was also a vigorous suppressor of minority languages, actually making it illegal for any child born in Spain to be given a name other than in Castilian Spanish among many other oppressive measures.

Putin as an anti-imperialist? Only if anti-imperialism consists of bullying, threatening and even invading neighbouring countries, sending murder squads into others to kill exiled dissidents, and illicitly meddling in foreign countries' election processes. He has not returned Shikotan and Habomai to Japan in all his years in power, and I am willing to bet he will not. And as I have pointed out before, he was a little boy when this 'offer' for which you give him so much credit was first made. As for the Kurds, I find myself caring less about their fate with every post you make.

I agree, that Franco wasn't an anti-imperialist except on Gibraltar.
Claiming, that Putin is bullying, threatening and invading neighbouring countries is an exaggeration. I support the reunification of Crimea with Russia, but I agree, that Russia ought to end support for the rebellion in eastern Ukraine. The war between Georgia and Russia of 2008 was actually started by Georgia, which invaded South Ossetia, which had been a de facto independent state since 1992. Russia defended South Ossetia against Georgian aggression. Putin agreed to withdrawing from Georgia proper after the war. Russia hasn't gone to war against other countries than Ukraine and Georgia during Putin's rule. Russia has friendly relations with Belarus, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan, and relations between Georgia and Russia have improved after Mikheil Saakashvili lost power in 2012.
Sergey Skripal is a traitor to Russia. He was spying for Great Britain against Russia.
You Brits evading your responsibility for Kurdistan is unacceptable. You made us part of Iraq against our will, and you Brits condemning Russia and Spain, while denying or minimizing your own crimes are disgusting. Vitaliy Churkin was right. Don't criticize other countries, before you have cleared your own conscience. If you start supporting Kurdish independence from Iraq and allow the Chagos Islanders to return, you can start criticizing other countries. 
Wessexman

Registered:
Posts: 1,268
Reply with quote  #74 
You got me. I am Lord Curzon. It was all my fault Kurdistan was made a part of Iraq.
azadi

Registered:
Posts: 387
Reply with quote  #75 
I apologize for appearing to be an Anglophobe. I don't want to harm Great Britain. Great Britain has evolved a lot on the matter of imperialism. Today, Great Britain supports the right of Scotland and Northern Ireland to secede, if a majority of the Scots and the Ulstermen vote in favour of it, while Spain refuses to allow Catalan and Basque secession, Iraq refuses to allow Kurdish secession and China refuses to allow Tibetan and Uyghur secession.
No significant independence movements exists in the current British overseas territories, and Gibraltar, Akrotiri, Dhekelia and the Chagos Islands are the only current British overseas territories, to which another country has a legitimate claim.
I dislike the widespread British imperial nostalgia on this forum (once a member of the forum claimed, that the ANC is a Communist movement, in spite of the fact, that the ANC supports the Zulu monarchy and the other native South African monarchies), but the British Empire wasn't worse than other European colonial empires. The Spanish Empire was actually worse than the British Empire.
Concerning past ethnic cleansing, I agree, that while only native peoples are entitled to national self-determination, trying to reverse past demographic changes is impractical in most cases. Concerning Gibraltar, the current inhabitants of Gibraltar ought to be allowed to stay after Gibraltar is returned to Spain. In addition, the current inhabitants of Gibraltar ought to be allowed to remain British citizens.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.