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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
I think a more pertinent question is whether your sophistry is deliberate or a matter of sheer confusion, or a bit of both. Sometimes I do agree that you seem to be deliberately trolling at timss. We are quarrelling because you made claims about moral responsibility you can't seem to explain or support.

I'm expressing my sincere opinions. I sincerely bear a grudge against Britain, because you made my country part of Iraq. I won't forgive this crime, unless your parliament emulates Estonia by recognizing the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq. But I have sincerely changed my mind on the Rock of Gibraltar and the moral obligations of Britain to Israel.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #272 
Blah, blah, blah. No one cares. You have an uncommon knack for making everyone wish they never hear the word Kurd ever again.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Wessexman
Blah, blah, blah. No one cares. You have an uncommon knack for making everyone wish they never hear the word Kurd ever again.

We Kurds are spiritually closer to Palermo than to London. Corruption and organized crime are widespread in Kurdistan, Kurdish families are usually close-knit and defending our honour is important to most Kurds. Honour is very important in Middle Eastern and Mediterranean cultures. You Englishmen are famous for being pragmatic and rational. 
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #274 
Thank you for making it clear at least some of your nonsense is deliberate. Let's hope Theodore does something about this situation soon.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Wessexman
Thank you for making it clear at least some of your nonsense is deliberate. Let's hope Theodore does something about this situation soon.

I'm actually expressing my sincere opinions. Defending my honour doesn't mean picking a fight, because I like quarrelling. It means that I refuse to forgive the crimes of your country against my country, unless you right the wrong, which you have committed against my country.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #276 
Have you invented a time machine then?

We are discussing whether or not there is need to right long past wrongs and even whether or not it is possible. You have simply abandoned trying to prove that and are now assuming what you need to prove. It is obvious you are doing this and obvious you know you are. This isn't sincere. It's trolling.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #277 
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Originally Posted by Wessexman
Have you invented a time machine then?

We are discussing whether or not there is need to right long past wrongs and even whether or not it is possible. You have simply abandoned trying to prove that and are now assuming what you need to prove. It is obvious you are doing this and obvious you know you are. This isn't sincere. It's trolling.

I won't change my mind on the moral obligations of Britain to Kurdistan, and you will likely not change your mind on the moral obligations of Britain to Kurdistan. Let's agree to disagree on that matter. 
MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #278 
Like it or not azadi, the United Kingdom will only recognise the right for Kurdistan to secede if the following 2 conditions are met:
i) It becomes a relevant issue in British International Affairs
ii) It is in the United Kingdom's interest to do so

Currently neither of those conditions are met, though I could see the first becoming so in the not too distant future.

Recognition of a right to secede or aknoledgement of a declaration of independence is less about morality and more about the practicality of international relations.
I'm sure most civil servants and government members would rather that south Korea covered the whole of the peninsula and that Iran was not a theocracy but Britain is hardly going to put out a statement supporting these matters right now.

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azadi

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Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor
Like it or not azadi, the United Kingdom will only recognise the right for Kurdistan to secede if the following 2 conditions are met:
i) It becomes a relevant issue in British International Affairs
ii) It is in the United Kingdom's interest to do so

Currently neither of those conditions are met, though I could see the first becoming so in the not too distant future.

Recognition of a right to secede or aknoledgement of a declaration of independence is less about morality and more about the practicality of international relations.
I'm sure most civil servants and government members would rather that south Korea covered the whole of the peninsula and that Iran was not a theocracy but Britain is hardly going to put out a statement supporting these matters right now.

Recognizing the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq doesn't mean recognizing Kurdistan as an independent state. The Estonian parliament didn't recognize Kurdistan as an independent state, when it recognized the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq. Britain recognizing Kurdistan as an independent state will make no sense, because Kurdistan hasn't seceded from Iraq.
https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/872c4caf-341c-44df-95d6-23c7fd4fc4b8

MatthewJTaylor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Recognizing the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq doesn't mean recognizing Kurdistan as an independent state. The Estonian parliament didn't recognize Kurdistan as an independent state, when it recognized the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq. Britain recognizing Kurdistan as an independent state will make no sense, because Kurdistan hasn't seceded from Iraq.
https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/872c4caf-341c-44df-95d6-23c7fd4fc4b8


Read what I said again.

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azadi

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Reply with quote  #281 
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Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor

Read what I said again.

You claim that Britain likely will not recognize the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq, unless it is in Britain's interest to do so. You are sadly right. Britain recognizing Kurdistan as an independent state will damage relations with Iraq and may damage relations with Turkey, but Britain merely recognizing the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq will likely not cause a diplomatic crisis. Estonia recognizing the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq didn't cause a diplomatic crisis.
MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #282 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

You claim that Britain likely will not recognize the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq, unless it is in Britain's interest to do so. You are sadly right. Britain recognizing Kurdistan as an independent state will damage relations with Iraq and may damage relations with Turkey, but Britain merely recognizing the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq will likely not cause a diplomatic crisis. Estonia recognizing the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq didn't cause a diplomatic crisis.

Hate to be a chauvanist but there's a bit of a difference between an Estonian recognition and a British recognition.
I personally am not against an indepedent Kurdish state and, so long as it proves the best way to defend the Kurdish people, I am all in favour, but I do not think that the United Kingdom is in any way obligated to declare so.

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azadi

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Reply with quote  #283 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor

Hate to be a chauvanist but there's a bit of a difference between an Estonian recognition and a British recognition.
I personally am not against an indepedent Kurdish state and, so long as it proves the best way to defend the Kurdish people, I am all in favour, but I do not think that the United Kingdom is in any way obligated to declare so.

Thank you for supporting Kurdish independence. Britain ought to recognize the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq, because Britain made Kurdistan part of Iraq. You broke it, you fix it.

MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #284 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Thank you for supporting Kurdish independence. Britain ought to recognize the right of Kurdistan to secede from Iraq, because Britain made Kurdistan part of Iraq. You broke it, you fix it.


I mean if we had to make statements about every time an area once controlled by us wants to do something, we'd never get anything else done.

You got invaded, you deal with it.

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Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #285 
I'm happy to agree to disagree, as long as you openly recognise that you were singularly unable to explain or support how we can have moral responsibility for the crimes of our ancestors. If you are honest you will do this. If you are dishonest and a troll you will not.
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