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TheRoyalist

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Reply with quote  #16 

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The only inaccuracy I see is the use of the 1801 Union Jack.

Then you are seeing it by Americanist-tinted glasses


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noachian

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Reply with quote  #17 
This just further supports the idea that the United States of America as a political and cultural entity is a threat to monarchy and to English culture. The USA has always produced anti-English media, portraying our nation as the tyrannical, obsolete enemy and themselves as the glorious, liberating hero.
phil

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:

Originally Posted by noachian:
This just further supports the idea that the United States of America as a political and cultural entity is a threat to monarchy and to English culture. The USA has always produced anti-English media, portraying our nation as the tyrannical, obsolete enemy and themselves as the glorious, liberating hero.

Get real!! What kind of threat is there to monarchists and British culture?
It's just a badly drawn and factually bankrupt cartoon. No need to worry. 


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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #19 
And besides all that, the US is the last stand for traditional English Measurements. 

(Silly NATO shoving meters down where yards should go not withstanding....)


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Loyalist

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Reply with quote  #20 
Now, I'm new here, and I don't know if my ensuing post will offend anyone, and by ALL means, it isn't intended too, and my apologies now if it does.  But I just don't have a grasp of if this will offend anyone.

Now, As some of you may know by another topic I posted, I quite like the thought of an American Constitutional Monarchy.  Although on the other hand, I strongly believe in our American Revolution and the American way of life.

I don't see the American Revolution as something against King George specifically, I believe the problem lies with the English Parliment at the time.

Although, more on the topic of the video, I'm 16, so the cartoon is not unlike something I would have watched on Thanksgiving day 6 years ago.  But please everyone, take it in jest, it is a simply thing meant to give some semblance of history to the younger generations, as I'm sure everyone has seen something of the like about their own native histories.
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #21 
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Originally Posted by Loyalist

  Although on the other hand, I strongly believe in our American Revolution and the American way of life.


Why?  I don't.  I for one bitterly resent the fact that I can't live here (or at least in the Eastern US, since I now live in Texas which was never under the British Crown) and have Queen Elizabeth II as my head of state, as they do in Canada.  I resent it that when we have Choral Evensong in the United States (I'm an Episcopalian) the precentor has to sing "O Lord Save the State" even though all the music used by the choir (printed in England) says "O Lord Save the Queen."  Historically, my sympathies are firmly with your noble username: the heroic Tories who sacrificed everything to remain loyal to the Crown.

Quote:
I don't see the American Revolution as something against King George specifically


Thomas Jefferson apparently disagreed when he wrote the Declaration of Independence, which focuses on attacking the King rather than Parliament.

Quote:

Although, more on the topic of the video, I'm 16, so the cartoon is not unlike something I would have watched on Thanksgiving day 6 years ago.  But please everyone, take it in jest, it is a simply thing meant to give some semblance of history to the younger generations


But it gives a distorted and inaccurate view of history, which contributes to the many misconceptions poorly educated Americans have about monarchy.  It is precisely the "younger generations" that need to be taught the truth: that a substantial number of colonists wished to remain loyal to the Crown, and an even greater number were indifferent, with only a noisy minority pushing for independence, that Britain's demands were quite reasonable in light of the cost of defending the colonists, that King George III was hardly a "tyrant," and (perhaps most importantly in light of American arrogance regarding Europe in general and France in particular) that the revolutionaries did not defeat the British on their own but were substantially aided by the military forces of France and (to a lesser extent) Spain.

I don't mean to be harsh, and I'm glad you're here; I'm always especially happy to see someone your age (I'm 30; hope that doesn't seem too terribly old!) interested in monarchy as it bodes well for the future.    Don't worry too much about anyone being "offended"; I'm not offended, and I wouldn't waste time being particularly "offended" by that cartoon.  I just disagree.
Loyalist

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Reply with quote  #22 
When saying I believe in the American way of life I mean that Americans love our nation on par.  We give anything for our nation, and yes even if some things aren't loved by all, I believe that we are all good in heart, and that we all truely want to see America prosper, under any form of government.

On the fact that Thomas Jefferson disagreed.  Well many of the founding father's disagreed with eachother, and on almost everything, and it was never the happy agreement and easily come to solution to write the constitution, unlike so many believe.  I personally resent that Americans don't know about the Articals of Confederation, and the six (I believe) presidents we had under that form of government.

Also on Thomas Jefferson, I think we can both agree that it's easier to blame one person than to blame a group.  To make a reference, even Hitler in Nazi Germany made the Jews singular.  It is much simpler to deamonize one than to take a group of individuals and deamonize all of them.

Yes youre correct that the video does give an inaccurate video, but that argument is hard to ground, because frankly in education our youth, American doesn't tell the whole story about the pilgrims at all.

And I do thank the Europeans for their aid in the Revolutionary War, without their help, the modern world would be extremely different.

**And you aren't being harsh
SupremeDirector

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Reply with quote  #23 
Loyalist I must disagree. America as a nation is a horror story. We have been responsible for countless traditional cultures being demolished because of the fanatical republicanism our coutry is blinded by. The aftermath of WWI and the Iraq nonsense come to mind. America as a people at one point were very good, if misguided, but well-meaning people. However since the Hippie era our nation has been on a moral and social decline which makes one wish for a barbarian horde to do to us what they did to ancient Rome just so the world could move on and recover.

I've taken the college history classes, England is portrayed as more evil than Hitler, simply because they've had more time than he did. The number of times I got marked down a grade because I defended England in classes about the American Masonic Revolution are too numerous to count. Americans want the "best" for their nation simply because they've been brainwashed by a liberal elite who despises traditonal values. Its the equivalent to Roman citizens beign cheerleaders while the Visigoths burned the city. Americans care more for their football teams than for their culture. And all of this is because of the Revolution which should never have happened. Republicanism is always evil. The 13 colonies should have remained a part of England, and I am with Royal with this one: I completly resent that I am forced to live in a "republic" rather than the monarchy which is my birthright.

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"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)
Loyalist

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Reply with quote  #24 
SupremeDirector, while I respect your opinion I must aswell disagree.  Yes, I can agree that Americans are indeed the most materialistic people on earth, and we do glorify things that aren't at all the most important things in the world.

I disagree with your Machiavellian philosophy.  Throughout the worst, we must see the good in people.  The American People can not live by simply lying down and accepting the world as is.  We must do our part to change it, for the better, and that isn't an governmental argument, its moral and ethical.

Yes America has done horrible things in the past, yet England is by no chance without their own faults.  I'm English by decent, and while it isn't an overwhelming majority of my heritage, as none of my heritage is overwhelmingly one way or another.  I love England, and the English people.

We do not need to argue about English history, as I'm sure you're well versed in it, but you can not so boldly insult America based on their history, without compairing it to the rest of the world.

Everyone has faults, as does every country.  But I still stand by my point that at heart, Americans are a good people, that want the best for their country.  Weather in a Republic, A monarchy, or any form of government.
SupremeDirector

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Reply with quote  #25 

Again I must disagree. Americans as a whole (I'm referring to the average Joe, not the very rare Joe who goes to every meeting of the local government and attends political rallies), do not know their history. They care about their country because they have been told to, not because of any thing in particular. When asked they go off about how great we are, how free we are, and various and sundry other platitudes, but can offer nothing substantial. Other than materialistic things there are very few things America has offered the world. We have an entire philosophy named after us which is the culmination of all heresies put together, Americanism. Not exactly something to celebrate over hot dogs and beer every July 4th in my opinion. While I respect your opinion and your right to have that opinion, which you have as a componant of natural law, not because of any civil law which was passed here, I must disagree. How can someone who claims to support monarchy claim and who claims to want the best for their country turn aroudn and support a revolution which was based upon Masonic and Lockean ideals, which have ruined our nation and have ruined countless other nations around the world which has adopted out model? I can understand loving the land of America and wanting the best for the land and its poor people who have been systematically decieved for their entire lives. But to support the actions which put into place the system which led to this mental oppression and enslavement to the social-welfare atheist state is just plain wrong!


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Long Live The King, Long Live Louis XX!

"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)
Loyalist

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Reply with quote  #26 
Asking me how I can support Monarchy and how I can still support the American Revolution is a moot point.  One can support a political, philisophical, or even religious viewpoint and not agree with 100% of the dogma.

I respect the American Revolution because I don't want to be a colony, I don't want to be controlled by an outsider.  I would see a constitutional monarchy in the US as one that has a Monarch that lives in the U.S. and isn't half a world away.


SupremeDirector

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Reply with quote  #27 
Ok then even if we leave aside the many problems which arise jst from the basic support of the Revolution, I must then pose to you two different questions. First, how can you justify taking lands which legally belong to another coutry, which has poured its money, blood, and citizens into developing and defending it, and give it to someone else? The 13 colonies belong to England and were developed from English money and blood. They thus belong to England, and to no one else. Just like the aprts owned by Spain belong to Spain.

But even if we go past that, and somehow accept all 50 of the US states (ignoring the fact that Hawaii has its own Monarchy), how would you decide who becomes the monarch? There are English, Spanish, French, Russian, and Hawaiian monarchical traditions and even more varied decendants living in this polygot nation. How do you decide who rules when there is no common background? Its unfeasable!

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Long Live The King, Long Live Louis XX!

"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #28 
Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are not "colonies"! 

In the age of television, the internet, and air travel, it's less problematic, not more problematic, to have a sovereign who lives far away, as long as the day-to-day government is in the hands of people who live there.  That's one reason I find the "chronological" ("having a Queen who lives in England is outdated in the 21st century") arguments of republicans in those Commonwealth countries so absurd.

That said, I don't envision the USA with its current borders as a unified monarchy.  Hawaii should secede and restore its own monarchy; regarding the rest of the country I'm not as certain, though my own emotional and sentimental allegiance belongs to HM Queen Elizabeth II.

Oh, and welcome back, SupremeDirector!
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #29 
As I've said before, I believe that not all countries are ideally suited for monarchy.  The United States as a single entity is one of these countries.  As Royalcello and Supremedirector pointed out, several monarchies have ruled different areas of what is now the U.S.A. (and that's not counting the native chieftancies that were here before the Europeans arrived).  I think breaking up the United States would be an unmitigated disaster for the world, so I believe that in the case of the U.S.A., the best solution is for it to remain a republic under it's present system.

Our new freind Loyalist though has a very valid point.  Monarchy and democracy are not mutually exclusive.  One can have bi-cameral elected legistlatures, democratic systems, federal structures and balance and seperation of powers along with a crowned Head of State.  One can believe in all of the above and still be a devoted monarchist.  Indeed the most democratic countries today are actually constitutional monarchies.

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SupremeDirector

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Reply with quote  #30 

Thanks Royal, its very nice to be back. I haven't really had the time the last year to post but hopefully I will be able to be a bit more active now! (Oh, and congratulations on being Christened finally! )


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Long Live The King, Long Live Louis XX!

"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)
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