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azadi

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
Personally, I think there's little point in apologising for wrongs long past. Turkey goes beyond not apologising; it refuses to acknowledge the Armenian genocide even took place. Anyway, my actual point wasn't about apologies themselves, but that you added this as a new condition to why Britain has a moral imperative to support certain things.

Also, I wouldn't say the British tabloid press spews out anti-German content. That rather suggests they spend a lot of time on the Germans. They have at times resorted to a crude anti-German hostility, but they have resorted to crudities on most topics. That's what the tabloid press is. They usually have some idea of the so called man in the street, and appeal to him.

I appear to be an Anglophobe, because I'm sick and tired of British and Anglophile members of this forum refusing to condemn past crimes of Great Britain. Some members of this forum has condemned the Haganah, solely because it conducted an armed struggle against British rule of Israel. The Haganah conducting an armed struggle against Great Britain was justified, because Great Britain limited Jewish immigration to Israel during the Nazi era. Most members of this forum hates the IRA. I'm opposed to Irish unification without the consent of the majority of the Ulstermen, but IRA's terrorism was caused by discrimination of Ulster Catholics. Many members of the forum cherish the legacy of the British Empire. I hate European colonialism.
I condemn the Kurdish participation in the Armenian Genocide, the crimes of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Russian occupation of East Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #47 
Not everyone shares your remorseless need to dig up the past. That doesn't mean they don't agree what was wrong was actually wrong. I know of only one poster in my time here who has been particularly vocal in support of the heritage of the British empire whilst, perhaps, glossing over its faults. I think most others would treat it in the nuanced, complex, and equivocal way it deserves (as do many historical events). When you insist on banging on about topics like this, it's not any nostalgia for the British empire you are seeing, but bemusement about why on earth you are bringing this stuff up.

Terrorism is wrong. It is never justified to kill civilians intentionally. In Ulster the lack of justification is clear. Indeed, the IRA terrorist campaign probably delayed any resolution of the civil rights infringements against Catholics - and I agree there were real infringements. Israel and the British mandate was an even more complex affair, but in no sense was terrorism justified. It makes even less sense to say so than usual, given you are essentially claiming that terrorism was acceptable in revenge. Anyway, it makes zero sense also to try to litigate the ins and outs of all these questions, which you seem intent on doing ad nauseam, often taking rather questionable or just silly stands.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #48 
Wessexman speaks for me also.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
Not everyone shares your remorseless need to dig up the past. That doesn't mean they don't agree what was wrong was actually wrong. I know of only one poster in my time here who has been particularly vocal in support of the heritage of the British empire whilst, perhaps, glossing over its faults. I think most others would treat it in the nuanced, complex, and equivocal way it deserves (as do many historical events). When you insist on banging on about topics like this, it's not any nostalgia for the British empire you are seeing, but bemusement about why on earth you are bringing this stuff up.

Terrorism is wrong. It is never justified to kill civilians intentionally. In Ulster the lack of justification is clear. Indeed, the IRA terrorist campaign probably delayed any resolution of the civil rights infringements against Catholics - and I agree there were real infringements. Israel and the British mandate was an even more complex affair, but in no sense was terrorism justified. It makes even less sense to say so than usual, given you are essentially claiming that terrorism was acceptable in revenge. Anyway, it makes zero sense also to try to litigate the ins and outs of all these questions, which you seem intent on doing ad nauseam, often taking rather questionable or just silly stands.

I agree, that deliberately targeting civilians is wrong, but I support armed struggle against colonial rule. Many members of this forum appear to condemn armed struggle against British colonialism. 
I don't consider Irish republican terrorism justified. But most members of this forum condemn Irish republican terrorism without trying to understand, why many Ulster Catholics supported Irish republican terrorism. I consider peaceful Irish republicanism a valid political position, unlike you. I hate the PKK, but condemning PKK terrorism, while ignoring Turkish oppression of the Kurds is a bad idea.
Great Britain ought to emulate Germany concerning repentance for past crimes, even though the British Empire was far less evil than Nazi Germany. The Guardian often condemns the crimes of the British Empire, but the Tories and the Faragists often support imperial nostalgia.
MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #50 

Why are you supporting any form of Irish Republicanism on a Monarchist Forum?

I suspect that the idea of a United Ireland under a Celtic High King would go down better here.

I am no Germanophobe, I enjoy spending time in Germany, mostly Bavaria. Nonetheless I recognise the legitimate threat posed by a strong Germany to the other nations of Europe if not kept in check by a strong France and Britain. In previous eras I would have said the same about France, despite being a Francophile.

Whilst even the most Faragist of Britons will admit that serious errors were made in British colonial administration, I see no reason to be ashamed of it overall. All governments do wrong but hardly any set up their colonies so well in regards to parliamentary democracy, common law, western political settlement and Christianity.

I'm afraid to say that the average Guardian reader would likely see you as a traitor to the Kurdish cause on account of your non-communism. Whilst I cannot expect you to switch all the way over to the telegraph, I would recommend finding an alternative to the Guardian.


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azadi

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor

Why are you supporting any form of Irish Republicanism on a Monarchist Forum?

I suspect that the idea of a United Ireland under a Celtic High King would go down better here.

I am no Germanophobe, I enjoy spending time in Germany, mostly Bavaria. Nonetheless I recognise the legitimate threat posed by a strong Germany to the other nations of Europe if not kept in check by a strong France and Britain. In previous eras I would have said the same about France, despite being a Francophile.

Whilst even the most Faragist of Britons will admit that serious errors were made in British colonial administration, I see no reason to be ashamed of it overall. All governments do wrong but hardly any set up their colonies so well in regards to parliamentary democracy, common law, western political settlement and Christianity.

I'm afraid to say that the average Guardian reader would likely see you as a traitor to the Kurdish cause on account of your non-communism. Whilst I cannot expect you to switch all the way over to the telegraph, I would recommend finding an alternative to the Guardian.


I don't support Irish republicanism. I would actually like a united Ireland to become a Commonwealth realm. If I was an Ulsterman, I would vote for the Alliance Party or the Social Democratic and Labour Party, not Sinn Fein, because Sinn Fein is hostile towards the Windsors.
You appear to claim, that the other countries of Western Europe must gang up on the most powerful country of Western Europe, regardless of its behaviour. That is utterly wrong. If Germany was an aggressive state, which threatened the independence of other European countries, the other countries of Europe ganging up on Germany would make sense, but Germany is a peaceful and democratic country today, which doesn't threaten the independence or the territorial integrity of any country. Membership of the EU is entirely voluntary.
The British Empire was no worse than the other European colonial empires, and the Spanish Empire was far worse than the British Empire. But I hate European colonialism. Non-Western countries are no less entitled to national independence than Western countries are.

MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I don't support Irish republicanism. I would actually like a united Ireland to become a Commonwealth realm. If I was an Ulsterman, I would vote for the Alliance Party or the Social Democratic and Labour Party, not Sinn Fein, because Sinn Fein is hostile towards the Windsors.
You appear to claim, that the other countries of Western Europe must gang up on the most powerful country of Western Europe, regardless of its behaviour. That is utterly wrong. If Germany was an aggressive state, which threatened the independence of other European countries, the other countries of Europe ganging up on Germany would make sense, but Germany is a peaceful and democratic country today, which doesn't threaten the independence or the territorial integrity of any country. Membership of the EU is entirely voluntary.
The British Empire was no worse than the other European colonial empires, and the Spanish Empire was far worse than the British Empire. But I hate European colonialism. Non-Western countries are no less entitled to national independence than Western countries are.


I must say I find your idea of the automatic right of a nation to independence to be thoroughly un-monarchist.
Sovereignty should be channelled through crowns not ethnic councils.

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azadi

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor

I must say I find your idea of the automatic right of a nation to independence to be thoroughly un-monarchist.
Sovereignty should be channelled through crowns not ethnic councils.

Do you honestly claim, that Great Britain invading India and large parts of Africa and the Middle East and Spain invading Mexico and Peru and destroying the ancient civilizations of Mexico and Peru were justified?
I don't support Scottish independence, Catalan independence or partition of Belgium. Kurdistan isn't comparable to Scotland, Catalonia and Flanders.

Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I agree, that deliberately targeting civilians is wrong, but I support armed struggle against colonial rule. Many members of this forum appear to condemn armed struggle against British colonialism. 
I don't consider Irish republican terrorism justified. But most members of this forum condemn Irish republican terrorism without trying to understand, why many Ulster Catholics supported Irish republican terrorism. I consider peaceful Irish republicanism a valid political position, unlike you. I hate the PKK, but condemning PKK terrorism, while ignoring Turkish oppression of the Kurds is a bad idea.
Great Britain ought to emulate Germany concerning repentance for past crimes, even though the British Empire was far less evil than Nazi Germany. The Guardian often condemns the crimes of the British Empire, but the Tories and the Faragists often support imperial nostalgia.


Your sense of what many members of this forum believe seems way off to me, at least if we're talking about those active while I have been here. This forum is a monarchist forum, and it is the official position that one not support withdrawal of parts of a monarchy, I believe, especially if the new part is to become a republic, although, of course, this occurred a century ago and not today. Irish republicanism is republican, and many lament that. It's one thing to think it's fair enough Eire left the UK, but another to support the Irish republican ideology. I'm not aware of many posters here that would simply ignore past British oppression of the Irish. This is in your mind.

Similarly, I don't know many Tories or UKIPers who are nostalgic for the British empire. This is just in your mind. There may be some who are keen to make it clear the nuances of British colonialism - that it did have a good side - but I have rarely met anyone who seriously thought it was simply a good thing. The Guardian often attacks British colonialism not simply from good motives, but because it is beholden to a poisonous quasi-Marxist ideology that focuses only on the bad things that West has done and maintains their eternal relevance. The Guardian may have better journalism than some papers, but it is left-liberal ideological rag, and left-liberalism today is becoming more and more insane. Read Douglas Murray's new book.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman


Your sense of what many members of this forum believe seems way off to me, at least if we're talking about those active while I have been here. This forum is a monarchist forum, and it is the official position that one not support withdrawal of parts of a monarchy, I believe, especially if the new part is to become a republic, although, of course, this occurred a century ago and not today. Irish republicanism is republican, and many lament that. It's one thing to think it's fair enough Eire left the UK, but another to support the Irish republican ideology. I'm not aware of many posters here that would simply ignore past British oppression of the Irish. This is in your mind.

Similarly, I don't know many Tories or UKIPers who are nostalgic for the British empire. This is just in your mind. There may be some who are keen to make it clear the nuances of British colonialism - that it did have a good side - but I have rarely met anyone who seriously thought it was simply a good thing. The Guardian often attacks British colonialism not simply from good motives, but because it is beholden to a poisonous quasi-Marxist ideology that focuses only on the bad things that West has done and maintains their eternal relevance. The Guardian may have better journalism than some papers, but it is left-liberal ideological rag, and left-liberalism today is becoming more and more insane. Read Douglas Murray's new book.

I'm definitely not a left-liberal. I'm a nationalist social democrat. I support democratic constitutional monarchies and I oppose unlimited immigration and gay marriage. In addition, left-liberals usually hate Putin and Trump and often hate the State of Israel, while I support Putin, the foreign policy of Trump and the State of Israel. Left-liberals often like PKK/PYD, which I hate, and they are often soft on the Iranian regime, which I hate. Most left-liberals don't want Reza Pahlavi to become Shah of Iran, unlike me. 
I don't claim, that you and Peter support imperialist nostalgia, but DavidV and Matthew J Taylor appear to support British imperialist nostalgia.
I don't support Irish republicanism, because I don't want Ireland to be a republic. I would like Ireland to be a Commonwealth realm or a separate Windsor monarchy. I'm neutral on Irish unification. I'm not opposed to Ulster being part of the UK, as long as the British government doesn't oppress Ulster Catholics. I'm merely claiming, that Irish republicanism is a legitimate political position, if it's peaceful.
I don't hate Great Britain, and I like the British monarchy. But I strongly dislike the British Empire and the other European colonial empires. I admire Jawaharlal Nehru, David Ben-Gurion and Jalal Talabani.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #56 
That's a grand total of two posters. And, in fact, one joined only recently (indeed, after you first made these kinds of claims). It seems quite a stretch to justify your general claims about behaviour here on such a foundation. You should take up the issue with these posters directly (preferably when they're actually around), rather than casting wider aspersions. I'm sure you and David could have a most enlightening exchange on the matter.

azadi

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
That's a grand total of two posters. And, in fact, one joined only recently (indeed, after you first made these kinds of claims). It seems quite a stretch to justify your general claims about behaviour here on such a foundation. You should take up the issue with these posters directly (preferably when they're actually around), rather than casting wider aspersions. I'm sure you and David could have a most enlightening exchange on the matter.


I apologize to the other British and Anglophile members of the forum. I overreacted to the supposed support of British imperial nostalgia on this forum, because of the Germanophobia of Matthew J Taylor. Please believe me, when I claim to not being an Anglophobe. I dislike the British Empire and Ulster Unionism, and I prefer Gibraltar to be part of Spain, but I don't dislike Great Britain and the British monarchy.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #58 
Because it seems like I'm the only member of the forum who hasn't voiced their opinion in this thread, I will say the following.

First, Azadi, I believe that you want Gibraltar to be part of the Spain, simply because it's right there. Good. But according to this logic, Kaliningrad should not be part of Russia either, as they are not directly connected. Also, the Spanish cities and enclaves/exclaves in Africa should be part of Morocco. There are several other examples.

Second, there is the desire of the locals to not be part of the Spain. That is important. Even if they are genetically closer to the Spanish, there is their wish to not be considered Spaniards.

Regarding Anglophobia and Germanophobia: the former would be understandable, if someone could not comprehend how this Great Power could not get its act together and leave the blasted European Union once and for all (and hopefully inspire other member-states to do likewise, which is obviously the fear of the EU-Government). It makes one wonder, how it could have ruled a big part of the world for so many years. Shame.

For the latter, it's not just the Nazism. I happen to work at a German company (but in Varna) and it sort of allows me to see the processes going on in Germany. Apart from the economy and the technology, it's not in a very good condition from a political and a social POV.


azadi

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murtagon
Because it seems like I'm the only member of the forum who hasn't voiced their opinion in this thread, I will say the following.

First, Azadi, I believe that you want Gibraltar to be part of the Spain, simply because it's right there. Good. But according to this logic, Kaliningrad should not be part of Russia either, as they are not directly connected. Also, the Spanish cities and enclaves/exclaves in Africa should be part of Morocco. There are several other examples.

Second, there is the desire of the locals to not be part of the Spain. That is important. Even if they are genetically closer to the Spanish, there is their wish to not be considered Spaniards.

Regarding Anglophobia and Germanophobia: the former would be understandable, if someone could not comprehend how this Great Power could not get its act together and leave the blasted European Union once and for all (and hopefully inspire other member-states to do likewise, which is obviously the fear of the EU-Government). It makes one wonder, how it could have ruled a big part of the world for so many years. Shame.

For the latter, it's not just the Nazism. I happen to work at a German company (but in Varna) and it sort of allows me to see the processes going on in Germany. Apart from the economy and the technology, it's not in a very good condition from a political and a social POV.



My reason for wanting Gibraltar to be part of Spain is, that Spain has a stronger historical claim to Gibraltar than Great Britain has. Despite personally preferring Gibraltar to be part of Spain, I accept Gibraltar remaining under British rule as long as the Gibraltarians want it.
I admit to bearing grudges against Great Britain, because it made Kurdistan part of Iraq and because it limited Jewish immigration to Israel during the Nazi era, but I don't hate Great Britain. I like the British monarchy, and I don't dislike British culture. I like British comedy, such as Fawlty Towers, Keeping Up Appearances and Monty Python, and I like Shakespeare, Narnia and Harry Potter. The Britons are tea-drinkers like us Kurds. If Great Britain supports Kurdish independence from Iraq and recognizes Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, I will cease to bear grudges against Great Britain. But I hate the British Empire and Ulster Unionism.
I like the Federal Republic of Germany, because its a democracy, which rejects Nazism and Communism and which recognizes titles of nobility as part of the legal name. But Germany ought to reassert a non-chauvinist national pride.
I support the EU, but I'm opposed to the Euro. I want the treaties of the EU to be amended in order to allow an EU member state to leave the Eurozone without leaving the EU.
I support Great Britain leaving the EU, because it's culturally closer to the Anglosphere than to continental Europe, and I'm opposed to Russian and Turkish membership of the EU, because I don't consider Russia and Turkey to be European countries. But I want the EU to establish friendly relations with Russia. I want an independent South (Iraqi) Kurdistan to join the EU customs union, but I'm opposed to Kurdish membership of the EU, because Kurdistan isn't a European country. 

MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #60 
For the last time, I am not a Germanophobe.
I love German Culture, I like German Food, I adore German music and whilst my German language skills are poor, I enjoy practicing them with Germans.
Some of my best school experiences were spent in Germany.
The notion that I in some way hate the German people is ridiculous.
I have concerns about the nature of German influence in Europe, that is all.
Whilst I continue to hold that the post WW1 settlement should have been to divide Germany into several kingdoms rather than one republic, my "ideal Europe" would contain a united Germany, with Georg Friedrich Ferdinand Prinz von Preu├čen as Emperor.
I would love to see Germany as a brother European nation to my own, just not "big brother".

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