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azadi

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I want Germany, India and Brazil to become permanent members of the UN Security Council. I support German permanent membership of the UN Security Council, because I'm a German citizen and because Germany is the largest country of Western Europe. I support Indian permanent membership of the UN Security Council, because India is the second-most populous country in the world. I support Brazilian permanent membership of the UN Security Council, because Brazil is the largest country of South America, and no South American country is currently a permanent member of the UN Security council.
If Scotland secedes from Great Britain, I support India replacing Great Britain as a permanent member of the UN Security Council. I consider British and French permanent membership of the UN Security Council an anachronism, because Great Britain and France are no longer great powers. India replacing Great Britain as a permanent member of the UN Security Council makes sense, because India is a member of the Commonwealth.
In order to be a permanent member of the UN Security Council, you ought to be a great power or the largest country of your region. Japan also wants to be a permanent member of the UN Security Council, but Japan is neither a great power nor the largest country of East Asia.
China and Russia are strongly opposed to Japanese permanent membership of the UN Security Council. USA supports Indian and Japanese permanent membership of the UN Security Council, but USA doesn't support German and Brazilian permanent membership of the UN Security Council. Russia supports German, Brazilian and Indian permanent membership of the UN Security Council. China is willing to accept Indian permanent membership of the UN Security Council, if India ceases to support Japanese permanent membership of the UN Security Council.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #2 
All three countries you favour enjoy broad support for a permanent seat, as does Japan. However, in each case there is also strenuous opposition. As any addition would require a two-thirds vote in favour in the General Assembly plus the agreement of all five current Permanent Members, there is quite a high bar to cross, rendering reform unlikely at present. No one is proposing to remove either Britain or France, nor can they be removed against their wills. So it is pointless even thinking about that one. Several years ago the EU made a feeble attempt to grab the two seats for itself but was quite rightly told where to go, and the same thing would and should happen with any further assaults on the two countries' places on the Council.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
All three countries you favour enjoy broad support for a permanent seat, as does Japan. However, in each case there is also strenuous opposition. As any addition would require a two-thirds vote in favour in the General Assembly plus the agreement of all five current Permanent Members, there is quite a high bar to cross, rendering reform unlikely at present. No one is proposing to remove either Britain or France, nor can they be removed against their wills. So it is pointless even thinking about that one. Several years ago the EU made a feeble attempt to grab the two seats for itself but was quite rightly told where to go, and the same thing would and should happen with any further assaults on the two countries' places on the Council.

I don't want to remove Great Britain and France from the UN Security Council. I want the UN Security Council to be composed of 8 permanent members. But I'm opposed to England remaining a member of the UN Security Council, if Scotland secedes from England. Great Britain will cease to exist, if Scotland secedes from Great Britain, because Great Britain is the union of England and Scotland. Russia was allowed to remain a permanent member of the UN Security Council after the dissolution of the USSR, but Russia is a great power unlike Great Britain.
No current permanent member of the UN Security Council is opposed to German and Brazilian permanent membership of the UN Security Council, while China and Russia are strongly opposed to Japanese permanent membership of the UN Security Council.
 
Peter

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Great Britain is a geographical expression, which would not be altered in its meaning if Scotland separates from the Union. If that were to happen then England, Wales and perhaps Northern Ireland would remain in union, and under whatever name would continue to hold a permanent seat, as all precedents show.
azadi

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Great Britain and France being permanent members of the UN Security Council, when Germany is not, annoys me. Germany is more deserving of being a permanent member of the UN Security Council than Great Britain and France is. Germany is a larger country than Great Britain and France, and Germany isn't an imperialist country, unlike Great Britain and France. Germany is very reluctant to participate in US invasions of other countries, unlike Great Britain and France. Germany refused to participate in the US invasion of Libya, unlike Great Britain and France, and Germany refused to deploy troops to Syria in July, when USA requested it. Pacifism remains very strong in Germany. According to opinion polls, most Germans want friendly relations with Russia, and AfD, Die Linke and parts of SPD wants improved relations with Russia. The Bismarck government and the Weimar Republic maintained friendly relations with Russia. Russophobia is sadly very strong in USA and Great Britain. Great Britain sheltering criminals like Sergey Skripal and the US Congress opposing Trump, when he tries to improve relations with Russia, is utterly wrong. I'm sick and tired of the victors of World War II denying Germany equal status to Great Britain and France. Germany is a mature democracy, which rejects totalitarianism. We ought to finally leave the shadow of Nazism. 
Peter

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I don't care if it annoys you, that's how it will be.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
I don't care if it annoys you, that's how it will be.

I WANT REVENGE FOR WORLD WAR I! LONG LIVE THE CENTRAL POWERS![biggrin]

Why are you opposed to German permanent membership of the UN Security Council?
Germany ought to cease to support Japanese permanent membership of the UN Security Council. I would like Japan to become a permanent member of the UN Security council, because it will symbolize reconciliation after World War II, but Germany associating its bid with Japan's bid makes it more difficult for Germany to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council. China will never accept Japan becoming a permanent member of the UN Security Council. I'm not terribly fond of the People's Republic of China, but Germany antagonizing China is a bad idea, because Germany needs the support of China in order to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council.
Peter

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I didn't say I was opposed. I'm not. What I'm opposed to, and which won't happen, is Britain losing its place. I'd have no objection to Germany gaining one.
MatthewJTaylor

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The influence of Germany must be constrained. Reunification may well turn out to have been a mistake. A powerful Germany swallows the weak nations of Europe.
After World War 1, Germany should have dropped the union but kept the kings, instead they dropped the kings and kept the union.

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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor
The influence of Germany must be constrained. Reunification may well turn out to have been a mistake. A powerful Germany swallows the weak nations of Europe.
After World War 1, Germany should have dropped the union but kept the kings, instead they dropped the kings and kept the union.

I'm a citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany. I will never accept the partition of Germany. I'm descended from East German nobility. East Germany remaining a Communist state would have been unacceptable. Germany is currently a democracy, which respects the sovereignty of other European countries and which rejects totalitarianism. Pacifism is strong in Germany. I am satisfied with Germany being a republic, and the Federal Republic of Germany recognizes titles of nobility as part of the legal name. I'm sick and tired of British Germanophobia.
 
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
I didn't say I was opposed. I'm not. What I'm opposed to, and which won't happen, is Britain losing its place. I'd have no objection to Germany gaining one.

I don't want Great Britain to lose its place at the UN Security Council, as long as Scotland remains part of Great Britain. I'm opposed to Scottish independence, because Scotland and England share a lot of cultural heritage, and Scotland has never been oppressed by England. Scotland isn't comparable to Ireland.
MatthewJTaylor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I'm a citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany. I will never accept the partition of Germany. I'm descended from East German nobility. East Germany remaining a Communist state would have been unacceptable. Germany is currently a democracy, which respects the sovereignty of other European countries and which rejects totalitarianism. Pacifism is strong in Germany. I am satisfied with Germany being a republic, and the Federal Republic of Germany recognizes titles of nobility as part of the legal name. I'm sick and tired of British Germanophobia.
 

I'm not saying that the east should have remained communist, I'm saying that a united Germany if insufficiently curtailed by Britain and France is a threat to Europe.
The Federal Republic of Germany may well accept the sovereignty of its neighbour states but Greater Germany (the European Union) certainly does not.
I'm sick and tired of Germany running my country.
The moment that the European project ends I will reconsider my stance on Germany.
I truly hope that one day Germany becomes just another kingdom on my continent.

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Peter

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Just for the record, I don't agree with Matthew any more than I normally agree with Azadi. I don't consider Germany any kind of threat to the other nations of Europe, and greatly admire and appreciate its enormous contribution to European culture. The Nazi years were an enormous shame and disgrace, but don't outweigh a thousand years of history, and have been thoroughly repented and renounced.
MatthewJTaylor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Just for the record, I don't agree with Matthew any more than I normally agree with Azadi. I don't consider Germany any kind of threat to the other nations of Europe, and greatly admire and appreciate its enormous contribution to European culture. The Nazi years were an enormous shame and disgrace, but don't outweigh a thousand years of history, and have been thoroughly repented and renounced.

My fear of German expansionism is in no way a condemnation of the valuable role played by Germany in the development of European culture.
Germany is an important player in the Europe but must always be constrained by Britain and France.

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azadi

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor

I'm not saying that the east should have remained communist, I'm saying that a united Germany if insufficiently curtailed by Britain and France is a threat to Europe.
The Federal Republic of Germany may well accept the sovereignty of its neighbour states but Greater Germany (the European Union) certainly does not.
I'm sick and tired of Germany running my country.
The moment that the European project ends I will reconsider my stance on Germany.
I truly hope that one day Germany becomes just another kingdom on my continent.

Germany isn't running the EU. Germany certainly has a lot of power in the EU, but France has no less power in the EU than Germany does. The EU is actually dominated by a Franco-German alliance. The EU doesn't run Great Britain. Great Britain has opt-outs from the Euro and the Schengen Agreement. Germany is certainly not trying to prevent Great Britain from leaving the EU. Most continental Europeans are sick and tired of British politicians delaying Brexit. We want to move on, and we want the uncertainty about the future relationship between Great Britain and the EU to end. The future relationship between Great Britain and the EU being uncertain harms German businesses, who deal with Great Britain. If you want Great Britain to leave the EU, vote for the Tories on December 12. If the Tories win on December 12, you will leave the EU on January 31 2020. It's understandable, that you are sad, because Great Britain didn't leave the EU on Halloween, but blame Corbyn for Brexit being delayed, not Germany. It's not our fault.
I support European integration. I support the Single Market, and I want the EU to establish a military alliance, because NATO is obsolete. Germany being an ally of USA makes no sense today, because Russia is no longer ruled by a Communist regime. The member states of the European Treaty Organization must be required to defend the territory of other member states of the ETO against foreign invasion. All EU member states must be required to be member states of the ETO, and other European countries must be allowed to apply for membership of the ETO. I'm opposed to Turkish and Ukrainian membership of the ETO.
But I want Germany to leave the Eurozone. I want the Mark back. I don't want the EU to become a federation. I want the EU to remain a union of sovereign states.
I'm opposed to Great Britain participating in European integration, because Great Britain is culturally closer to the Anglosphere than to continental Europe. Charles de Gaulle was right.
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