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Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #16 


Your reply includes terms of offense I never used or even implied. Not being a person of a like mind does not connote inferences on intellectual levels. I have written I was not going to keep unwanted company, which is a form of bidding adieu. First, I answer your argument.

The online etymology dictionary you quote gives 1784 for the date of the ‘droit’; the date is obviously not Medieval. The Free Dictionary goes to 1815-1825.

There is no evidence from the Middle Ages. Some ‘researchers’ try to quote the ancient Mesopotamian ‘Gilgamesh’, which is obviously neither French, nor Latin.

The ‘Latin equivalent’ you find perfectly reasonable would be much nonexistent. Perseus is a very extensive source for Latin.

“Ius” returns 459 results; “Ius primae noctis” returns 10 results, none of them rendering the mythical ‘right’;

‘jus primae noctis’ does not return any results; “jus” alone hardly returns any results, all the three coming from times later than the Antiquity

What one would be left to is the Wikipedia and the painting “Le droit du seigneur”, again, dated to 1874 and Vasily Polenov, member of the painter movement to become precursor to Socialist realism.

Rape might be not nation-specific. The practice of a mythical precedent can dated back in England to the times of Elizabeth I.

You mention religion. The psychologically significant fact is that ‘Seigneur’ remains the French term for the ‘Lord’, meaning the God. Should there have been an established practice of rape, either French landlords would have become termed ‘earthenlords’, or the God would have become ‘the Archon’, whichever you consider more likely.

Bidding adieu is perfectly fine.



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Posts: 1,066
Reply with quote  #17 
Seigneur isn't used just for God though. Just like the Greek(Byzantine era) kyrios also has a broader meaning then just The Lord.

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Posts: 39
Reply with quote  #18 
Originally Posted by InquisitorGeneralis

Does anyone know of a certain practice called "Prima Nocte"?  I'm just curious to find out, if it was practiced, when, where, and how often?

As regards Christian countries, it is a fiction. An interesting plot device, though, as WhiteCockade pointed out and one I refrain from using as a writer only because I do not wish to add fuel to the fire of libel against medieval Christendom.

O Lord our God, arise, scatter Her enemies, and make them fall!
Confound their politics, frustrate their knavish tricks, on Thee our hopes we fix, God save us all!

Before anyone asks, Louis-Alphonse de Bourbon is the King of France.

To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods. - Thomas Babbington Macaulay

"Now the Prince has raised his banner, now triumphant is our cause/Now the Scottish Lion rallies, let us strike for Prince and laws!" --Wha Wadna Fecht Fer Chairlie, The Corries

Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #19 
In mishnaic times durring the Roman occupation of the first and second centuries in israel grooms were sometimes allowed into the father in laws home and "secluded" with the betrothed. This excluded him from bringing charges of non-virginity afterwards and is the only time that premarital sex was ever condoned in the Jewish faith apparently in order to prevent the Roman governor from practicing nocte primus. Related to this is war rape as policy which was sometimes used for the same purposes as first night ideas about breading out troublesome populations as well as it's more basic demoralizing effects.
Drink! for ye know not whince ye came nor how Drink! for ye know not where ye go nor why
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