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Cenebrand

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitelord
I think that monarchy is doomed because there is always the possibility that your next king is going to be evil. He might be one of those types that chops peoples heads off all the time, and screws every mans wife right after a marriage.


You do know that Joffery from Game of Thrones isn't an actual character from history, right?
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #32 

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Originally Posted by Cenebrand


You do know that Joffery from Game of Thrones isn't an actual character from history, right?

Ha! Exactly. Critics of monarchy often carry on as if most real kings acted like Joffrey Baratheon.

DutchMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #33 
Nice to see some more readers of a Song of Ice and Fire here! Joffrey didn't last long with his attitude, anyway.  
Peter

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Reply with quote  #34 
This, in response to a US friend who wanted my opinion having enjoyed the TV series but never read the books, is my opinion:

"The books are very good, but not in my opinion great. I have seen all but the last two episodes of the first series made from them, and considered the programmes unusually respectful of the books and well scripted and acted. I have a lot of time for George R. R. Martin as a writer, but in my opinion he has done better things than Song of Ice and Fire (the overall name for the series which Thrones begins).

 "His earlier work was really fresh and original, whereas this is pretty standard albeit well-written and quirky heroic fantasy. It has however been vastly more successful than his other books and so he has written little else since he began it (and that mostly collaborations to which he did not seem to me to contribute much more than his name). I don’t blame him for following the money, and his talent is well worth the fame and fortune it has earned him. I still regret what might have been had he not done this and/or it had not been such a major seller, though, which is very selfish of me."
18th_Brumaire

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Reply with quote  #35 
It's not actually all that well written - maybe it is for a fantasy series? I don't read much fantasy. Lemoncakes and "words are wind" and the like are his crutches, and they are crutches he loves to use, over, and over, and over, and over again.
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DutchMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #36 
The way in which he lets even his good characters die is refreshing. So much fantasy is just a simple battle of good versus evil, but that doesn't really apply here. Really, I don't think it can be called standard fantasy - he doesn't just write from the perspective of the people who you consider to be the bad guys at first, he also makes them very credible characters. 
MonarchicWalrus

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenebrand


You do know that Joffery from Game of Thrones isn't an actual character from history, right?

Ha! Exactly. Critics of monarchy often carry on as if most real kings acted like Joffrey Baratheon.

You know, I've always found Joffery Baratheon was a great argument for monarchism. Why?? Because Joffery illustrates that when a tyrannical king does arise...

SPOILER ALERT(for those that have not read the books), highlight to read:

...he does not live very long. Joffery is poisoned and killed rather shortly after he takes power. You often see republicans defending clearly evil presidents, and as a result those elected politicians get away with almost anything. However, when a king tries similar tyranny, he usually ends up dead.


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Peter

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Reply with quote  #38 
Responding very belatedly to 18th Brumaire, it's not that I think the prose is exceptional. The characterisation and plotting however are. My main problem is with the antiquity of the Houses, they are all seven or eight thousand years old, which could never happen with normal lifespans. It's fine in The Lord of the Rings, where the extended lifespan of the Dunedain and the limitless one of the Elves curtails the number of generations and helps to explain it, but no normal human line would survive unbroken for the hundreds of generations that Martin's do. Joffrey's accession was by no means unquestioned, of course, though the challenges to his rule were due to doubts over his lawful right, not his repulsive character and behavior, but (highlight to read rest) I thought he died by accident, choking on a lump of meat, rather than was poisoned. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, been a while since I read it.
TheBrownEyedPoet

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenebrand
You do know that Joffery from Game of Thrones isn't an actual character from history, right?
Ha! Exactly. Critics of monarchy often carry on as if most real kings acted like Joffrey Baratheon.


Heh, Joffrey was an arrogant, and spoiled little brat. He sat on the Iron Throne, yes, but most politicians in the world today are far more arrogant, corrupt and foolish than Joffrey was in his time (even if his character was just fiction)
TheBrownEyedPoet

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Reply with quote  #40 

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitelord
I think that monarchy is doomed because there is always the possibility that your next king is going to be evil. He might be one of those types that chops peoples heads off all the time, and screws every mans wife right after a marriage. I would say that a monarchy is good if the king/queen is a devout Catholic, and is good to the people.


I won't deny that there have been beheadings during those times, and it was true that Henry VIII had a lot of women whom he eventually married, but I also would like to point out that there might have been executions and beheadings, but it wasn't "all the time" as you put it. And even if there were cruel and mad kings, not all monarchs were like this. However, if you put it in comparison with the politicians today, not one of them possesses grace, or wisdom or self-respect. They are all about empty promises and image-building.

jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrownEyedPoet

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitelord
I think that monarchy is doomed because there is always the possibility that your next king is going to be evil. He might be one of those types that chops peoples heads off all the time, and screws every mans wife right after a marriage. I would say that a monarchy is good if the king/queen is a devout Catholic, and is good to the people.


I won't deny that there have been beheadings during those times, and it was true that Henry VIII had a lot of women whom he eventually married, but I also would like to point out that there might have been executions and beheadings, but it wasn't "all the time" as you put it. And even if there were cruel and mad kings, not all monarchs were like this. However, if you put it in comparison with the politicians today, not one of them possesses grace, or wisdom or self-respect. They are all about empty promises and image-building.



BrownEyedPoet, infinitelord hasn't posted since just before Christmas and since he wasn't really any sort of monarchist, I doubt he's still reading the forum.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
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