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Peter

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Reply with quote  #61 
That report was from 2012. Here's one from 2017. Erdogan has most certainly not ended suppression of the Kurdish language in Turkey, original partial relaxation which itself did not at all equate to 'ending' being followed by renewed crackdown. The stuff about PKK is another red herring being trawled by you. Anyway PKK, bad as they may be, exist in the first place due to systematic Turkish oppression of Kurds. It seems doubtful that the dynasty would have survived in a rump Turkey. If it had, the only difference it would have made to the Kurds of the Mosul Vilayet would have been the colour of their oppressors' uniforms. And, since you don't seem yet to have got the news, the Central Powers did not win WWI. They lost it.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
That report was from 2012. Here's one from 2017. Erdogan has most certainly not ended suppression of the Kurdish language in Turkey, original partial relaxation which itself did not at all equate to 'ending' being followed by renewed crackdown. The stuff about PKK is another red herring being trawled by you. Anyway PKK, bad as they may be, exist in the first place due to systematic Turkish oppression of Kurds. It seems doubtful that the dynasty would have survived in a rump Turkey. If it had, the only difference it would have made to the Kurds of the Mosul Vilayet would have been the colour of their oppressors' uniforms. And, since you don't seem yet to have got the news, the Central Powers did not win WWI. They lost it.

The PKK isn't a red herring. I'm opposed to Kurdish secession from Turkey, because I'm opposed to the establishment of a Communist Kurdish state. The PKK indeed exists, because of Turkish oppression of the Kurds, but Turkey oppressing the Kurds doesn't justify Communist terrorism. Turkey ought to make Kurdish an official language of Turkey, but I support the struggle of the Turkish government against PKK. 
The Ottoman Empire didn't oppress the Kurds. Turkish oppression of the Kurds was introduced by Atatürk.
The Central Powers lost World War I, but the Ottoman Empire would have survived, IF the Central Powers had won World War I.
Accusing me of being excessively hostile to the British Empire is hypocritical, because you are excessively hostile to the Ottoman Empire. I have defended the virtues of the Ottoman Empire and condemned the crimes of the Ottoman Empire. You claim that the British Empire had both virtues and faults. Which virtues did the British Empire have?
 
Peter

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Reply with quote  #63 
The sole virtue of the Ottoman Empire you have adduced is that they weren't too horrid to the Kurds. Oh, and that they didn't oppress Muslims, big surprise. Though I think quite a few Muslims that lived under it and were oppressed due to their low status rather than religion would have an issue with your claim. Finally that they were as a rule decent to Jews, which I would concede. You've still got a lot of nerve accusing me of hypocrisy, when you are a thoroughly dishonest debater and frequent liar. Though that's all of a piece with your flinging slanders around all over the place then screaming you've been slandered when anyone dares to question your motives or actions here.

And it really takes nerve for someone who has done nothing but spew unjustified bile against Britain since he arrived here to demand to me that I justify the virtues of the British Empire. You justify your attacks, as you have so signally failed to do so far, then I might think about justifying the virtues. The PKK most certainly was a red herring, a 180 swerve away from what the topic had been, typically dishonest tactics on your part. Entirely typically, you have ignored one of the two major points in my brief reply and dismissed the other with a cursory lie, then focusing on the two minor ones. More dishonest tactics.

You're always asking questions and making demands, here's two for you. Why should I continue to debate with someone who is so completely dishonest and deceitful in his debating methods? And are you ever going to say anything about the Spanish exclaves?
azadi

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Reply with quote  #64 
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Originally Posted by Peter
The sole virtue of the Ottoman Empire you have adduced is that they weren't too horrid to the Kurds. Oh, and that they didn't oppress Muslims, big surprise. Though I think quite a few Muslims that lived under it and were oppressed due to their low status rather than religion would have an issue with your claim. Finally that they were as a rule decent to Jews, which I would concede. You've still got a lot of nerve accusing me of hypocrisy, when you are a thoroughly dishonest debater and frequent liar. Though that's all of a piece with your flinging slanders around all over the place then screaming you've been slandered when anyone dares to question your motives or actions here.

And it really takes nerve for someone who has done nothing but spew unjustified bile against Britain since he arrived here to demand to me that I justify the virtues of the British Empire. You justify your attacks, as you have so signally failed to do so far, then I might think about justifying the virtues. The PKK most certainly was a red herring, a 180 swerve away from what the topic had been, typically dishonest tactics on your part. Entirely typically, you have ignored one of the two major points in my brief reply and dismissed the other with a cursory lie, then focusing on the two minor ones. More dishonest tactics.

You're always asking questions and making demands, here's two for you. Why should I continue to debate with someone who is so completely dishonest and deceitful in his debating methods? And are you ever going to say anything about the Spanish exclaves?

I don't demand that you justify the virtues of the British Empire. I'm merely curious about the alleged virtues of the British Empire. 
I mentioned PKK, because you asked me why I don't condemn Turkish oppression of the Kurds. You once claimed that I don't condemn Turkish oppression of the Kurds, because I can't blame Britain for it. That's utterly wrong. I don't support Kurdish secession from Turkey, because I'm an anti-Communist, not because I'm an Anglophobe.
I don't care about the Spanish exclaves, and I actually don't care about Gibraltar. Gibraltar being a British colony is hardly unacceptable to me, because Spain ceded Gibraltar in the Treaty of Utrecht and the Gibraltarians don't want to rejoin Spain. I apologize for having mentioned Gibraltar excessively on this forum. I have mentioned Gibraltar on this forum, because British tabloid newspapers have claimed that Britain may go to war over Gibraltar. I sincerely fear Spain becoming a republic, if Spain loses a war over Gibraltar. I don't care about Gibraltar, but I care about the Spanish monarchy.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I don't demand that you justify the virtues of the British Empire. I'm merely curious about the alleged virtues of the British Empire. 
I mentioned PKK, because you asked me why I don't condemn Turkish oppression of the Kurds. You once claimed that I don't condemn Turkish oppression of the Kurds, because I can't blame Britain for it. That's utterly wrong. I don't support Kurdish secession from Turkey, because I'm an anti-Communist, not because I'm an Anglophobe.
I don't care about the Spanish exclaves, and I actually don't care about Gibraltar. Gibraltar being a British colony is hardly unacceptable to me, because Spain ceded Gibraltar in the Treaty of Utrecht and the Gibraltarians don't want to rejoin Spain. I apologize for having mentioned Gibraltar excessively on this forum. I have mentioned Gibraltar on this forum, because British tabloid newspapers have claimed that Britain may go to war over Gibraltar. I sincerely fear Spain becoming a republic, if Spain loses a war over Gibraltar. I don't care about Gibraltar, but I care about the Spanish monarchy.

That's the third version I've seen, though there may have been others I missed. The first was all abject apology, quite embarrassing to read really. The second was rather more feisty, and this one is feistier again. I'm replying solely to save you the bother of composing a fourth version then a fifth and so on, and other people the bother of reading them. I'm done talking to you.

But before I go, let me tell you also not to bother making further intrusions into the European Royal Genealogy section. I know it must gall you that there is a forum wall you have yet to scribble on, but I am afraid it has anti-vandal measures in place and further attempts will be as futile as the last two were.
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