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azadi

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Reply with quote  #46 
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Originally Posted by Peter
That does sound like the sort of thing David would say. I don't see any insult to the German and Persian empires there, though. On a technical note, the British Empire in terms of both territorial extent and population surpassed any other empire in history, including the two of those put together, though it is true that these are not the only or even most important measures of an empire's greatness. On your second paragraph's first sentence yes, and? I don't think anyone has been arguing the point. The Parthians and Sassanids were certainly equally matched with the Romans militarily, and were really the only power of comparable stature at the time. But naturally the cultural heritage of the Romans was immensely more important in shaping today's Western culture than that of the Persians. So we do tend to think about them rather more, sorry about that.

I began to condemn the legacy of the British Empire on this forum, because DavidV defending the legacy of the British Empire is repugnant. My attacks against the legacy of the British Empire were actually aimed at DavidV, not at you or at Wessexman. This forum appearing to be a stronghold of British jingoism is the fault of DavidV. You and Wessexman haven't defended the legacy of the British Empire, but you ought to have refuted DavidV, when he defended the legacy of the British Empire.  
I want this forum to be an international monarchist forum. I want more continental European and Russian monarchists to join this forum. This forum being a stronghold of British jingoism will make continental Europeans and Russians less likely to join this forum. Murtagon, Bator and I are the only continental Europeans, who are active members of this forum.
I like both the pre-Islamic Iranic empires and the Roman Empire. I actually prefer the Roman Empire to Ancient Greece.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #47 
You don't half talk nonsense. A stronghold of British jingoism, forsooth. I didn't 'refute' David when he defended the legacy of the British Empire probably because I agreed with whatever he was saying. Or at least didn't strongly disagree, depending. Other people are allowed to have opinions too, you know. Me, if I looked at this forum as a newcomer I would wonder why it was not called the All About Azadi Forum, since no one appeared to ever talk about anything else. And I certainly wouldn't be joining it, not finding Azadi an even slightly interesting topic.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #48 
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Originally Posted by Peter
You don't half talk nonsense. A stronghold of British jingoism, forsooth. I didn't 'refute' David when he defended the legacy of the British Empire probably because I agreed with whatever he was saying. Or at least didn't strongly disagree, depending. Other people are allowed to have opinions too, you know. Me, if I looked at this forum as a newcomer I would wonder why it was not called the All About Azadi Forum, since no one appeared to ever talk about anything else. And I certainly wouldn't be joining it, not finding Azadi an even slightly interesting topic.

I don't claim that this forum is a stronghold of British jingoism. I merely claim that DavidV makes the forum appear to be a stronghold of British jingoism. You and Wessexman aren't jingoists. An important reason for me often repeating my opinions on this forum is that I was annoyed at DavidV, because he ignored me. I like debating with people, who disagree with me. DavidV refusing to debate with me, because he disagreed with me, was very disappointing.
I admit that I have appeared to be excessively hostile to Britain. Claiming that the British Empire was uniquely evil is wrong, because it was no worse than other European empires, except in the Middle East.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #49 
I think David refuses to debate with you because he finds you supremely obnoxious, not because you disagree with him. I disagree with him on many things too, and he has never seemed unwilling to talk to me. But I would give up on him if I were you. If he won't talk to you he won't, and that's that.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
I think David refuses to debate with you because he finds you supremely obnoxious, not because you disagree with him. I disagree with him on many things too, and he has never seemed unwilling to talk to me. But I would give up on him if I were you. If he won't talk to you he won't, and that's that.

I will cease to repeat my opinions in order to grab the attention of DavidV.
AaronTraas

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Reply with quote  #51 
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Originally Posted by azadi

I will cease to repeat my opinions in order to grab the attention of DavidV.


How about ceasing to repeat your opinions, period? It's a really poor debating technique, and all it does is make everyone on this forum irritated by you. That's the whole blasted point of this thread existing.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #52 
Azadi, before you came to this forum I don't remember the Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq being constantly praised or even mentioned at all.

In order to apply your logic to my own situation, I could say that I am sick and tired of my fellow forum-members for being big fans of the Ottoman Empire despite its many monstrosities and its continued backwardness. But I wouldn't (because they are reasonable people who either don't hold that opinion or, if they do, they keep it to themselves) and if I had been greatly offended I would have left at the first opportunity (or not even joined the forum at all).

Additionally, why don't YOU invite these non-British people to the forum, if you want it to be a more balanced place? Things always have to start somewhere.

P.S. I sincerely hope that Ethiomonarchist will come back.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #53 
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Originally Posted by AaronTraas


How about ceasing to repeat your opinions, period? It's a really poor debating technique, and all it does is make everyone on this forum irritated by you. That's the whole blasted point of this thread existing.

I will actually try to avoid repeating my opinions in the future. I was merely explaining an important reason for me often repeating my opinions.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Murtagon
Azadi, before you came to this forum I don't remember the Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq being constantly praised or even mentioned at all.

In order to apply your logic to my own situation, I could say that I am sick and tired of my fellow forum-members for being big fans of the Ottoman Empire despite its many monstrosities and its continued backwardness. But I wouldn't (because they are reasonable people who either don't hold that opinion or, if they do, they keep it to themselves) and if I had been greatly offended I would have left at the first opportunity (or not even joined the forum at all).

Additionally, why don't YOU invite these non-British people to the forum, if you want it to be a more balanced place? Things always have to start somewhere.

P.S. I sincerely hope that Ethiomonarchist will come back.

DavidV often praised the Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq, before I joined this forum. I'm the only member of this forum, who is a fan of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire had both virtues and faults. I have never defended Ottoman rule in Bulgaria. Bulgaria deserved to obtain independence from the Ottoman Empire. The Balkan countries were better off without Ottoman rule, but the Middle East was better off under Ottoman rule. Kurdistan was far better off under Ottoman rule than under Iraqi rule. I have often condemned the Armenian Genocide, but Sultan Mehmed V wasn't responsible for the Armenian Genocide, because he was a figurehead.
I too hope that Ethiomonarchist will come back. My apology to him was sincere. I accused him of hating Israel, because he once claimed that the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan was the only decent regime in the Middle East. I must have misunderstood him, because he denied hating Israel, when I accused him of hating Israel. I sincerely regret accusing him of hating Israel.

MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #55 
I think most of the members of this forum would agree that the world would be a better place right now if some form of Ottoman Empire had survived.
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Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #56 
Azadi, I also don't see the need to respond to everything everyone says, but as I know you have been trawling the forum archives, that is a strange accusation.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #57 
To Matthew, that particular corpse-with-a-pulse had had its pointless existence prolonged by life support for far too long already. It was not ever getting up. To create a credible scenario for the Empire's survival, I think you would have to set the POD a long way back. To Azadi, what you say of Mehmed V is true enough, but the first Armenian genocide took place when Abdul Hamid II still very much held the reins, and happened at his direction. The Ottomans cannot be exonerated entirely. Also, while it may well be true that the Kurds were better off under the Ottomans than they have subsequently been, that was set to change. The Young Turks had more than just the one minority in their sights, and the systematic persecution of the Kurdish people that has continued more or less unabated through the life of the Turkish Republic in fact began under them.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #58 
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Originally Posted by Peter
To Matthew, that particular corpse-with-a-pulse had had its pointless existence prolonged by life support for far too long already. It was not ever getting up. To create a credible scenario for the Empire's survival, I think you would have to set the POD a long way back. To Azadi, what you say of Mehmed V is true enough, but the first Armenian genocide took place when Abdul Hamid II still very much held the reigns, and happened at his direction. The Ottomans cannot be exonerated entirely. Also, while it may well be true that the Kurds were better off under the Ottomans than they have subsequently been, that was set to change. The Young Turks had more than just the one minority in their sights, and the systematic persecution of the Kurdish people that has continued more or less unabated through the life of the Turkish Republic in fact began under them.

The Ottoman Empire would have survived, if the Central Powers had won World War I. The Kurds remained loyal to the Ottoman Empire during the World War I, and the Arabs remained loyal to the Ottoman Empire during World War I, except in Hejaz. Most Syrians didn't support the Arab Revolt.
The Armenian Genocide and the Ottoman massacres of Assyrians were heinous crimes, but the Ottoman Empire treated its Muslim subjects well, regardless of ethnicity, and the Ottoman Empire treated the Jews and the Arab Christians well. 
Why won't you admit that Iraq has treated the Kurds far worse than Turkey has done? Atatürk indeed tried to eradicate the Kurdish language, but he didn't commit genocide against the Kurds, unlike Saddam. Erdogan has actually ended suppression of the Kurdish language in Turkey. He is persecuting PKK, which is a Communist terrorist organization, but he isn't persecuting Kurds, who are loyal to Turkey.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #59 
It may have escaped your notice that the Central Powers did not win WWI. If they had, the Empire would no doubt have stumbled on for a while longer. Until now? Not a chance. What have Syrians and the Arab Revolt have to do with a discussion of Turkey and Kurds? Oh yeah, a red herring being trawled. Why won't you admit that many, many thousands of Kurds have died and many thousands more been driven from their homes in the course of what has been a century-long sustained effort by Turkey to destroy Kurdish ethnicity and identity? Erdogan has done no such thing and is most unlikely ever to. You have evidently yet to learn that making stuff up is not really the best way to win an argument.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #60 
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Originally Posted by Peter
It may have escaped your notice that the Central Powers did not win WWI. If they had, the Empire would no doubt have stumbled on for a while longer. Until now? Not a chance. What have Syrians and the Arab Revolt have to do with a discussion of Turkey and Kurds? Oh yeah, a red herring being trawled. Why won't you admit that many, many thousands of Kurds have died and many thousands more been driven from their homes in the course of what has been a century-long sustained effort by Turkey to destroy Kurdish ethnicity and identity? Erdogan has done no such thing and is most unlikely ever to. You have evidently yet to learn that making stuff up is not really the best way to win an argument.

I'm a staunch anti-Communist. I hate PKK, because it's a Communist terrorist movement. I'm opposed to the establishment of a Kurdish Communist regime. I support the KRG, which is a secular democracy.
Erdogan has sadly not made Kurdish an official language of Turkey, but he has ended suppression of the Kurdish language in Turkey.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/06/2012612133656956705.html

The Ottoman Empire may have lost its Arab regions, but it would have kept present-day Turkey and South (Iraqi) Kurdistan until now, if the Central Powers had won World War I.
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