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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROO86


And? I’m an Australian living in New Zealand. Doesn’t make me any less an Australian.

Here is an article on establishing a separate Australian monarchy:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/a-novel-solution-to-the-republican-debate-20091113-iekx.html


ROO86

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Here is an article on establishing a separate Australian monarchy:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/a-novel-solution-to-the-republican-debate-20091113-iekx.html




Here’s an article on leprechauns...

https://www.irishpost.com/news/leprechaun-myth-exposed-165245
AaronTraas

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROO86
Round and round it goes.


Didn't you know repetition ad nauseum is the highest form of persuasion? Just saying what you think more often and louder is sure to convince your interlocutors of the errors of their ways.
ROO86

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Quite true. I’ll try and remember that next time 😂
azadi

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I prefer Australia remaining a Commonwealth Realm to Australia becoming a republic. Australia sharing its head of state with Britain is hardly unacceptable, because Australia has close historical and cultural ties to Britain. But a Windsor, who won't inherit the British throne, becoming King or Queen of Australia, when Queen Elizabeth dies, is the best option. Australia rejecting its historical and cultural ties to Britain is wrong, but electing a member of the British royal family, who won't inherit the British throne, King or Queen of Australia will hardly be a rejection of Australia's historical and cultural ties to Britain. Australia will remain a member state of the Commonwealth, despite ceasing to be a Commonwealth realm. Tonga is a member state of the Commonwealth, despite being ruled by a native king. 
ROO86

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Reply with quote  #21 
Say it a few more times. I’m still not convinced.
AaronTraas

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Reply with quote  #22 
My predictions for 2020:

  • Vermin Supreme will again run as an independent for president of the United States
  • He will again gain the endorsement of of the No Fax campaign (historical support: https://twitter.com/no_fax/status/662686826059177984)
  • I will stay home on election day because he won't be on the NJ ballot, and I'm a single-issue voter, and no other candidate will support criminalization of fax machine usage
  • I will remain smug about the rational use of my time playing video games instead of voting
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #23 
Azadi, we've through this before. Whatever the intrinsic merits of such a proposal, it's entirely impracticable. If there is any change from the current position in Australia (and I would guess New Zealand, though I know a lot less about it), it will be to a republic. Attempting any change would be counterproductive.

My prediction is that in 2020, East Gibraltar will return to its eternal loyalty!
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
Azadi, we've through this before. Whatever the intrinsic merits of such a proposal, it's entirely impracticable. If there is any change from the current position in Australia (and I would guess New Zealand, though I know a lot less about it), it will be to a republic. Attempting any change would be counterproductive.

My prediction is that in 2020, East Gibraltar will return to its eternal loyalty!

Many Australian republicans are nationalists rather than ideological republicans. They will not be opposed to a separate Australian monarchy.
I prefer Australia remaining a Commonwealth realm to Australia becoming a republic, despite supporting a separate Australian monarchy, but Australia becoming a republic after the death of Queen Elizabeth is inevitable. Most Australians want a resident for president.
"I think it's inevitable that New Zealand will become a republic and that would reflect the reality that New Zealand is a totally sovereign-independent 21th century 12,000 miles from the United Kingdom" - Helen Clark, a former Prime Minister of New Zealand
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #25 
It's true that Australian republican arguments are overwhelmingly based on nationalism, rather than ideological republicanism. But it is simply extremely unlikely that many will consider an Australian monarchy to replace the shared, Commonwealth one. It just isn't on the radar. The vast majority wouldn't even consider an Australian monarch as a viable option.

I'm somewhat pessimistic about the long term viability of the monarchy in Australia, but calling a republic an inevitability is a bit strong. Maybe a majority are soft republicans - mostly on nationalist grounds - but republicanism as an organised movement is at a low ebb. There's just little interest in and appetite for change. Her Majesty's passing will be a real test, but I'm not convinced even that will change things substantially.
ROO86

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Many Australian republicans are nationalists rather than ideological republicans. They will not be opposed to a separate Australian monarchy.
I prefer Australia remaining a Commonwealth realm to Australia becoming a republic, despite supporting a separate Australian monarchy, but Australia becoming a republic after the death of Queen Elizabeth is inevitable. Most Australians want a resident for president.
"I think it's inevitable that New Zealand will become a republic and that would reflect the reality that New Zealand is a totally sovereign-independent 21th century 12,000 miles from the United Kingdom" - Helen Clark, a former Prime Minister of New Zealand


Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

The anti-English republicans would never support a “separate” monarchy (again you’re ignoring the fact we already have a separate monarchy), regardless of where the Monarch lived. Period.

There is no inevitability in Australia or NZ becoming republics and, again, no matter how many times you repeat the same line doesn’t make it true.

Other than a quote from a Kiwi prime minister in office over a decade ago, do you actually have any supporting evidence on why a republic in either country is inevitable?

Do you have answer to how the republicans will come to a consensus on a model, overcoming their divisions between direct election and appointment of a president?

Do you have an answer as to how you get a majority of the population, in a majority of electorates across a majority of states to support either model whose flaws against the current system will then be on show and dissected? No? The republicans can’t figure it out either.

Do you actually understand the divisions in the Australian states and that inner city Sydney and Melbourne don’t represent the majority of Australia? This is clearly evidenced in the ‘99 referendum and has not changed in the 20 years since.

Do you suggest that the public’s distrust of politicians will dissipate in the near future allowing another politician to be made president via some unknown method?

Do you have any evidence to support your claim “the majority of Australians want a resident for president”? The results of the republic referendum clearly refute this claim.
MonarchistKaiser

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Reply with quote  #27 
Your first 5 predictions are really very positive but the last 3 not only really terrible but even more unlikely than the first 5. About the Iranian regime, I do think that is it the most likely prediction, the revolutionary Ayatollah regime must see its end (not by war). The reestablishment of the Monarchy is somewhat likely to happen regarding radical trends in the Iranian politics making it a possibility. When that would happen that's another question...
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchistKaiser
Your first 5 predictions are really very positive but the last 3 not only really terrible but even more unlikely than the first 5. About the Iranian regime, I do think that is it the most likely prediction, the revolutionary Ayatollah regime must see its end (not by war). The reestablishment of the Monarchy is somewhat likely to happen regarding radical trends in the Iranian politics making it a possibility. When that would happen that's another question...

Why do you dislike Lula and the Nehru-Gandhi family?
MonarchistKaiser

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Why do you dislike Lula and the Nehru-Gandhi family?


I dislike socialism and Ghandi's India or Lula's Brazil are certainly no good examples of it if anyone wanted a good name for socialist regimes. When it comes to economy, Ghandi's model (Ghandian economics) failed terribly and the Indian economy remained nearly stagnant for 50 years, until they freed the economy in 1990. In Brazil their egalitarian mix of capitalism and socialism worked to a point, until when the economic growth went negative and a lot of corruption was revealed and that's why the current government came to power.
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