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Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windemere
Thank you for that interesting survey of the possible heirs to the English throne at Queen Elizabeth’s death. Incidentally, Margaret Tudor was both a paternal great-grandmother (with her second husband) and a maternal great-grandmother (with her first husband) of King James VI and I

In addition to being the great-granddaughter of Margaret Tudor (with her second husband),Lady Arbella Stuart was also King James VI and I’s paternal first-cousin.


You are welcome!

This is all absolutely correct. I do find it curious, however, that while Margaret's first husband was indeed a royal, her second one was not. It was the quite the opposite in Mary's case. Her first one was none other than King Louis XII of France (they had no children), while her second one was an English peer.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #17 

Henry VIII’s elder sister. As he was 12 years old at the time, Henry’s views on his sister’s marriage to the King of Scots are unlikely to have been taken into account, but I know of no record that he objected. He certainly did object to Margaret’s chequered marital career after her first husband died; rather ironically in view of subsequent events, he strenuously disapproved of her obtaining a Papal annulment of her second marriage and promptly embarking on a third. Henry’s number of marriages was one at the time, but as we all know would far from remain so.

The question of foreign-born heirs inheriting the English throne was a tricky one. I have never been able to find a text of De natis ultra mare, the statute of Edward III that supposedly dealt with the issue, but as far as I can glean it was more concerned with inheritance of landed property than succession to the crown. If we look since William I, born in Falaise, Normandy but he did not exactly inherit the throne, William II was born in Normandy though we do not know exactly where. Henry I was born in England, probably Yorkshire though we aren’t certain, but Stephen in Blois, France.

Henry II in Le Mans, in the neighbouring county of Anjou, then we get a sequence of English-born kings (OK, Welsh-born in the case of Edward II) lasting until Richard II, interestingly enough Edward III’s immediate successor, born in Bordeaux, then under English rule but definitely not in England. And his immediate heir at his accession was generally seen as being his uncle John, Duke of Lancaster, known as John of Gaunt due to his birth in Ghent, neither in England nor under English rule.

His deceased elder brother Lionel, Duke of Clarence, from whom the Yorkist claim eventually derived, was known as Lionel of Antwerp for a similar reason, and again Antwerp was never an English possession. Not too much sign of a bar on the foreign-born there. Earlier, Edward I had left a will establishing male preference primogeniture as the succession method from him, with no hint that his daughter Joan of Acre, which is where she was born while her parents were on Crusade, was in any different position to the others.

The will was of questionable legal and no historical effect, but still shows the direction of thinking at the time. The same is true of Edward III’s will establishing semi-Salic succession, but again the fact that far from being excluded John of Gaunt stood at the head of the line after his nephew Richard shows that Edward III had no particular aversion to the foreign-born succeeding.

Moving forward, Henry IV was born in England, Henry V in Wales, Henry VI in England but Edward IV in Rouen, which distinctly was not in either England or Wales. But neither his treacherous brother Clarence (born in English-ruled Dublin) nor his even more treacherous brother Gloucester (born in England, Fotheringhay in Northamptonshire to be precise) ever challenged his right or his children’s right on natal grounds, instead concocting spurious allegations of illegitimacy against first Edward IV himself and then all his children.

Anyway, after the English-born Edward V was usurped and subsequently murdered by Gloucester, now Richard III, the Welsh-born Henry VII overthrew and killed Richard in turn. The next four monarchs, who were Henry VIII and his children, were all English-born, then we have the first and second (and to date last) Scots-born monarchs, James I and Charles I. I will briefly mention that just three monarchs have been born outside England since, William III (Netherlands) and George I and George II (both Hanover), then return to James I, the only one among all these sovereigns whose birthplace appears to have caused any controversy whatsoever.

And actually it didn’t really. The legal issue with his succession was not so much his birth in Edinburgh but that his claim derived from Margaret Tudor with whom we started, and her line was specifically excluded under the final will of her brother Henry VIII, which unlike the wills of Edwards I and III mentioned previously undoubtedly was of binding legal effect, Henry’s second and third Succession Acts having specifically authorised him to leave the Crown by will to whomever he pleased, in default of natural heirs of the body.

His first such Act (1533) excluded his elder daughter Mary as illegitimate and made his second daughter Elizabeth heiress. Its own successor (1536) delegitimised Elizabeth too, leaving no heirs as the future Edward VI was yet to be born, hence the wide latitude given to the King. Then the third Act took note of Edward’s arrival, and left the Crown to him and the heirs of his body, then any issue of the King with his current wife (Katherine Parr, #6) or any future wives he might have, then to Mary, still specifically shown as illegitimate, and her issue, then to Elizabeth, double ditto, and finally in default of all these to whomever it might please the King to name in his will or by Letters Patent.

The King did in fact leave a will, which reiterated the order of succession above then added the descent of his younger sister Mary, specifically excluding that of his elder sister Margaret as foreigners, which they were. And, Edward, Mary and Elizabeth all having died without issue and without altering the succession in any respect (albeit Edward attempted to, but not in any legally binding form) this will, which had statutory force, was in fact the law of England.

How then did James I come to accede? Simple. He was an immensely more qualified and appealing candidate than any of Mary’s various descendants, quite apart from the difficulty of determining exactly which one of these was the senior in legitimate line. So the law was just ignored, and may be regarded as having been superseded the instant these words were pronounced. Which was not the end of succession controversies in these lands, but was the end of the natal question in such controversies. Which, as I think I have shown, never played much of a role anyway.

Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #18 
Thanks, Peter! I've corrected my mistake and added a note that refers readers to your very informative post.

I have a question for you. How many times has the English/British succession been limited to the descendants of a specific person? 
Peter

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Reply with quote  #19 
Offhand I can only think of three occasions, the first being the Act of Henry VII you already mentioned, with limitation to his own descendants, and the second being the Act of Settlement, which limited it to the descendants of Sophia, Electress of Hanover (failing issue of first Princess Anne of Denmark and then William III, neither of whom seemed at all likely to have any). The Scottish Act of Union established that situation for Scotland also, with no mention of William II (as he was there) since he was already dead, and I suppose you could say that was the fourth occasion, as an Act of Robert II had limited succession in Scotland to his own sons and thereafter to their sons and their sons' sons and so forth. When those lines failed with James V the infant Mary I succeeded as 'lawful heir', this being the extent to which the succession had been specified in default of qualifying males.

Thanks for your interesting essay, as I neglected to say. I also meant to mention that it was nice to see our friend Windemere reappear. It's been a little while since we've seen him, which I presumed was due to lockdown making computer access difficult (he has several times mentioned that his primary access is through his local library). I was hoping of course that it was nothing more serious than that! Which happily it evidently wasn't.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #20 
Thank you for the answer, Peter! I'll see how I can use that information in the future.

Yes, I had forgotten to congratulate Windemere on his return! One more week and the state of emergency in Bulgaria will be lifted and I think I am going to breathe a sigh of relief. I hope for the same for my fellow monarchists from the UK and the US (and anywhere else, really).

Unless anything unexpected happens, the next new project should appear in early June.
Windemere

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Reply with quote  #21 
Peter and Murtagon,
Thank you both for your kind wishes. I do very much miss the local libraries, which are closed right now, due to the Pandemic lockdowns that we are all coping with. I don’t have internet access at my home, but I’ve acquired an iPhone, and am trying to learn how to use it to access email and the internet. The post I sent last night in response to Murtagon’s survey of the English succession at Elizabeth I’s death was one of the first I’d sent over the iphone, and I’m happy to see that it went through siccessfully. Oddly enough, I have no idea how to use the telephone feature on the iPhone, and I still depend upon my landline phone for that. But the iPhone is very handy for email and for accessing the internet.

It’s being left up to the individual state governments to decide when to end the lockdowns and reopen. The federal guidelines are recommending 14 consecutive days of a declining Covid daily fatality toll before reopening, although numerous states have ignored this, and reopened early. My own state is taking a conservative approach, which I think is prudent, and is maintaining the lockdown for the forseeable future.

The lockdown is actually quite manageable. Supermarkets, drugstores, takeout restaurants, and parks are open, and we can go outside, walk, and drive, although we are wearing masks and social-distancing.

It will be a pleasure to reread Peter’s comprehensive post concerning the English, Scottish, and Welsh succession issues. Take care, and best wishes to all as we continue to cope with this Pandemic.

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Dis Aliter Visum "Beware of martyrs and those who would die for their beliefs; for they frequently make many others die with them, often before them, sometimes instead of them."
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #22 
It is now time for my third project, which is going to have slightly irregular installments.

Henry Stuart and the Lost Cause

Henry Benedict Stuart (1725 - 1807) was the younger son of James Francis Edward Stuart (1688 - 1766) and Maria Clementina Sobieska (1702 - 1735). Following the death of his elder brother, Charles Edward Stuart (1720 - 1788), His Eminence was considered by the Jacobite movement the "real" King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland.

Unfortunately for them, Henry was a Roman-Catholic Cardinal, which meant that he was unmarried at his own death, which implied that any issue of his that he may have had would have been illegitimate (none is known). 

You may have seen lists of succession that have been set in 1688/9, 1701/2 or 1714. Let us see what it would have looked like according to the Jacobite theories on the 13th of July, 1807, when the "Cardinal Duke of York" died, and at which point (in my personal opinion) it became completely pointless to be a Jacobite anymore.

I have decided to limit the succession to the legitimate descendants of King James I and VI, as the personal union would have been otherwise lost, just like in the first project of mine.

I would like to ask for all possible comments to be saved for the end. If you have an important suggestion, please use this thread instead. Thank you!

Behold!

I. Remaining descendants of Charles I of England (1600 - 1649):
  1. Charles Emmanuel IV of Sardinia (1751 - 1819), brother of...
  2. Victor Emmanuel I of Sardinia (1759 - 1824), father of...
  3. Maria Beatrice of Savoy (1792 - 1840), sister of...
  4. Maria Teresa of Savoy (1803 - 1879), sister of...
  5. Maria Anna of Savoy (1803 - 1884), niece of...
  6. Charles Felix of Sardinia (1765 - 1831), brother of...
  7. Marie Joséphine of Savoy (1753 - 1810), aunt of...
  8. Louis Antoine, Duke of Angoulême (1775 - 1844), brother of...
  9. Charles Ferdinand, Duke of Berry (1778 - 1820), nephew of...
  10. Maria Anna of Savoy, Duchess of Chablais (1757 - 1824), half-niece (and wife) of...
  11. Prince Benedetto, Duke of Chablais (1741 - 1808), first cousin three times removed of...
  12. Marie Thérèse of France (1778 - 1851), niece of...
  13. Louis XVIII of France (1755 - 1824), brother of...
  14. Charles X of France (1757 - 1836), first cousin twice removed of...
  15. Charles II, Duke of Parma (1799 - 1883), brother of...
  16. Princess Maria Luisa Carlota of Parma (1802 - 1857), first cousin of...
  17. Frederick Augustus II of Saxony (1797 - 1854), brother of...
  18. Prince Clemens of Saxony (1798 - 1822), brother of...
  19. John of Saxony (1801 - 1873), brother of...
  20. Princess Amalie of Saxony (1794 - 1870), sister of...
  21. Princess Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony (1796 - 1865), sister of...
  22. Princess Maria Anna of Saxony (1799 - 1832), sister of...
  23. Maria Josepha Amalia of Saxony (1803 - 1829), niece of...
  24. Princess Maria Antonia of Parma (1774 - 1841), sister of...
  25. Princess Carlotta Maria of Parma (1777 - 1812), niece of...
  26. Maria Luisa of Parma (1751 - 1819), mother of...
  27. Ferdinand VII of Spain (1784 - 1833), brother of...
  28. Infante Carlos, Count of Molina (1788 - 1855), brother of...
  29. Infante Francisco de Paula of Spain (1794 - 1865), brother of...
  30. Carlota Joaquina of Spain (1775 - 1830), mother of...
  31. Pedro I of Brazil (1798 - 1834), brother of...
  32. Miguel I of Portugal (1802 - 1866), brother of...
  33. Maria Teresa, Princess of Beira (1793 - 1874), sister of...
  34. Maria Isabel of Braganza (1797 - 1818), sister of...
  35. Infanta Maria Francisca of Braganza (1800 - 1834), sister of...
  36. Infanta Isabel Maria of Braganza (1801 - 1876), sister of...
  37. Infanta Maria da Assunção of Braganza (1805 - 1834), sister of...
  38. Infanta Ana de Jesus Maria of Braganza (1806 - 1857), niece of...
  39. Maria Luisa, Duchess of Lucca (1782 - 1824), sister of...
  40. María Isabella of Spain (1789 - 1848), mother of...
  41. Luisa Carlotta of the Two Sicilies (1804 - 1844), sister of...
  42. Maria Christina of the Two Sicilies (1806 - 1878).

II. Other descendants of James VI and I (1566 - 1625):
  1. Louis Philippe I (1773 - 1850), brother of...
  2. Louis Charles, Count of Beaujolais (1779 - 1808), brother of...
  3. Adélaïde d'Orléans (1777 - 1847), niece of...
  4. Bathilde d'Orléans (1750 - 1822), second cousin of...
  5. Maria Beatrice d'Este, Duchess of Massa (1750 - 1829), mother of...
  6. Francis IV, Duke of Modena (1779 - 1846), brother of...
  7. Archduke Ferdinand Karl Joseph of Austria-Este (1781 - 1850), brother of...
  8. Archduke Maximilian of Austria-Este (1782 - 1863).
Current number of heirs: 50.

TO BE CONTINUED...
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #23 
Second part of:

II. Other descendants of James VI and I (1566 - 1625):
  1. Archduke Karl of Austria-Este (1785 - 1809), brother of...
  2. Maria Theresa of Austria-Este, Queen of Sardinia (1773 - 1832), sister of...
  3. Archduchess Maria Leopoldine of Austria-Este (1776 - 1848), sister of...
  4. Maria Ludovika of Austria-Este (1787 - 1816), first cousin once removed of...
  5. Louise Marie Adélaïde de Bourbon, Duchess of Orléans (1753 - 1821), first cousin once removed of...
  6. Louis François Joseph, Prince of Conti (1734 - 1814), second cousin once removed of...
  7. Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (1768 - 1835), father of...
  8. Ferdinand I of Austria (1793 - 1875), brother of...
  9. Archduke Franz Karl of Austria (1802 - 1878), brother of...
  10. Archduke Johann Nepomuk of Austria (1805 - 1809), brother of...
  11. Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma (1791 - 1847), sister of...
  12. Maria Leopoldina of Austria (1797 - 1826), sister of...
  13. Archduchess Clementina of Austria (1798 - 1881), sister of...
  14. Archduchess Marie Caroline of Austria (1801 - 1832), sister of...
  15. Archduchess Marie Anne of Austria (1804 - 1858), niece of...
  16. Ferdinand III, Grand Duke of Tuscany (1769 - 1824), father of...
  17. Leopold II, Grand Duke of Tuscany (1797 - 1870), brother of...
  18. Archduchess Maria Luisa of Austria (1798 - 1857), sister of...
  19. Maria Theresa of Austria (1801 - 1855), niece of...
  20. Archduke Charles, Duke of Teschen (1771 - 1847), brother of...
  21. Archduke Joseph, Palatine of Hungary (1776 - 1847), brother of...
  22. Archduke Anton Victor of Austria (1779 - 1835), brother of...
  23. Archduke John of Austria (1782 - 1859), brother of...
  24. Archduke Rainer Joseph of Austria (1783 - 1853), brother of...
  25. Archduke Louis of Austria (1784 - 1864), brother of...
  26. Archduke Rudolf of Austria (1788 - 1831), brother of...
  27. Maria Theresa of Austria (1767 - 1827), sister of...
  28. Archduchess Maria Anna of Austria (1770 - 1809), aunt of...
  29. Marie-Caroline of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, Duchess of Berry (1798 - 1870), grandniece of...
  30. Archduchess Maria Elisabeth of Austria (1743 - 1808), sister of...
  31. Maria Carolina of Austria (1752 - 1814), mother of...
  32. Francis I of the Two Sicilies (1777 - 1830), brother of...
  33. Leopold, Prince of Salerno (1790 - 1851), brother of...
  34. Maria Cristina of Naples and Sicily (1779 - 1849), sister of...
  35. Maria Amalia of Naples and Sicily (1782 - 1866), fifth cousin of...
  36. Constantin, 3.Fürst zu Salm-Salm (1762 - 1828), father of...
  37. Florentin, 4.Fürst zu Salm-Salm (1786 - 1846), half-brother of...
  38. Prince Georg zu Salm-Salm (1793 - 1836), brother of...
  39. Franz Josef, Prinz su Salm-Salm (1801 - 1842), brother of...
  40. Eleonore, Prinzessin zu Salm-Salm (1794 - 1871), sister of...
  41. Johanna, Prinzessin zu Salm-Salm (1796 - 1868), sister of...
  42. Princess Auguste zu Salm-Salm (1798 - 1837), niece of...
  43. Prince Georg Adam Franz zu Salm-Salm (1766 - 1834), brother of...
  44. Prince Wilhelm Florentin Friedrich zu Salm-Salm (1769 - 1824), brother of...
  45. Prince Ludwig Otto Oswald zu Salm-Salm (1772 - 1822), first cousin of...
  46. Franz August Ludwig, Prinz zu Salm-Salm (1773 - 1809), nephew of...
  47. Emanuel, Prinz zu Salm-Salm (1742 - 1808), brother of...
  48. Wilhelm, Prinz zu Salm-Salm (1745 - 1810), uncle of...
  49. Auguste, Gräfin von Manderscheid-Blankenheim (1744 - 1811), mother of...
  50. Franz Josef, Graf von Sternberg-Manderscheid (1763 - 1830).
Current number of heirs: 100.

Disclaimer: Unfortunately, I have been unable to find reliable information regarding the descendants of Maria Elisabetta Ernestina d'Este (1741 - 1774) and Carlo Salomone, Count of Serravalle. They would be located between numbers 5 and 6 above. I'm sorry about that. In any case, it's quite possible that some part of the Italian nobility is also descended from King James I of England, completely legitimately.

TO BE CONTINUED...

Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #24 
Third part of:

II. Other descendants of James VI and I (1566 - 1625):
  1. Marie Leopoldine, Gräfin von Sternberg-Manderscheid (1791 - 1870), sister of...
  2. Gräfin Auguste von Sternberg-Manderscheid (1793 - 1820), sister of...
  3. Gräfin Christiane von Sternberg-Manderscheid (1798 - 1840), sister of...
  4. Gräfin Erwine von Sternberg-Manderscheid (1803 - 1840), sister of...
  5. Marie Franziska, Gräfin von Sternberg-Manderscheid (1805 - 1845), niece of...
  6. Johann Wilhelm, Graf von Sternberg-Manderscheid (1765 - 1847), nephew of...
  7. Gräfin Johanna Franziska von Manderscheid-Blankenheim (1753 - 1828), mother of...
  8. Graf Johann Wilhelm zu Nesselrode-Reichenstein (1778 - 1822), brother of...
  9. Count Johann Maximilian zu Nesselrode-Reichenstein (1783 - 1813), brother of...
  10. Maria Karoline, Gräfin zu Nesselrode-Reichenstein (1779 - 1858), sister of...
  11. Countess Maria Sophia zu Nesselrode-Reichenstein (1784 - 1839), second cousin of...
  12. Franz Joseph, Graf von Silva-Tarouca (1773 - 1835), brother of...
  13. Amelia, Gräfin von Silva-Tarouca (1784 - 1852), grandniece of...
  14. Maria Theresia, Gräfin zu Schönborn-Heussenstamm (1758 - 1838), mother of...
  15. Eugen Karl, Graf Czernin von Chudenitz (1796 - 1868), grandnephew of...
  16. Marie Franziska, Gräfin zu Schönborn-Heussenstamm (1763 - 1825), first cousin of...
  17. Ludwig, 2.Fürst von Starhemberg (1762 - 1833), father of...
  18. Georg Adam, 3.Fürst von Starhemberg (1785 - 1860), brother of...
  19. Georg, Graf von Starhemberg (1802 - 1834), brother of...
  20. Ernestine Marguerite, Gräfin von Starhemberg (1782 - 1852), sister of...
  21. Franziska Marie, Gräfin von Starhemberg (1787 - 1864), sister of...
  22. Leopoldine, Gräfin von Starhemberg (1793 - 1859), grandniece of...
  23. Maria Anna, Prinzessin zu Salm-Salm (1740 - 1816), mother of...
  24. Don Pedro de Alcantara de Toledo y Salm-Salm, 13.Duque del Infantado e Lerma (1768 - 1841), uncle of...
  25. Comtesse Francoise de Beaufort-Spontin (1785 - 1830), sister of...
  26. Comtesse Maria Emanuelle Josephe de Beaufort-Spontin (1786 - 1824), sister of...
  27. Marie Léopoldine de Beaufort-Spontin (1787 - 1837), sister of...
  28. Comtesse Thérèse Charlotte de Beaufort-Spontin (1789 - 1857), first cousin twice removed of...
  29. Charles, 7.Prince de Ligne (1725 - 1814), grandfather of...
  30. Sidonie, Princesse de Ligne (1786 - 1828), niece of...
  31. Louis, Prince de Ligne (1766 - 1813), father of...
  32. Eugene, 8.Prince de Ligne (1804 - 1880), brother of...
  33. Jules, Prince de Ligne (1806 - 1810), nephew of...
  34. Christine, Princesse de Ligne (1757 - 1830), mother of...
  35. Karl Joseph, 3.Fürst von Clary und Aldringen (1777 - 1831), father of...
  36. Mathilde, Gräfin von Clary und Aldringen (1806 - 1896), niece of...
  37. Graf Moritz Franz von Clary und Aldringen (1782 - 1829), nephew of...
  38. Euphemie, Princesse de Ligne (1773 - 1834), sister of...
  39. Flore, Princesse de Ligne (1775 - 1851), third cousin of...
  40. Charles Joseph, 4.Duc d'Ursel (1777 - 1860), father of...
  41. Leon, 5.Duc d'Ursel (1805 - 1878), brother of...
  42. Marie, Comtesse d'Ursel (1807 - 1868), niece of...
  43. Louise, Comtesse d'Ursel (1775 - 1834), mother of...
  44. Gustave, Comte de Lannoy (1800 - 1892), brother of...
  45. Comte Adrien de Lannoy (1806 - 1880), brother of...
  46. Emilie Blanche Ferdinande de Lannoy (1802 - 1883), niece of...
  47. Emilie, Comtesse d'Ursel (1782 - 1849), mother of...
  48. Adrienne Alexandrine Alix de Mun (1806 - 1832), grandniece of...
  49. Marie Henriette, Comtesse d'Ursel (1743 - 1810), mother of...
  50. Marie Wilhelmine, Gräfin von Ferraris (1780 - 1866).
Current number of heirs: 150.

TO BE CONTINUED...
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #25 
Fourth part of:

II. Other descendants of James VI and I (1566 - 1625):
  1. Graf Josef Zichy-Ferraris de Zich et Vásonkeö (1801 - 1825), brother of...
  2. Graf Viktor Zichy-Ferraris de Zich et Vásonkeö (1806 - 1846), brother of...
  3. Gräfin Henriette Zichy-Ferraris de Zich et Vásonkeö (1800 - 1852), sister of...
  4. Gräfin Emilie Zichy-Ferraris de Zich et Vásonkeö (1803 - 1866), sister of...
  5. Gräfin Melanie Zichy-Ferraris de Zich et Vásonkeö (1805 - 1854), third cousin twice removed of...
  6. Louis Joseph, Prince of Condé (1736 - 1818), father of...
  7. Louis Henri, Prince of Condé (1756 - 1830), brother of...
  8. Louise Adélaïde de Bourbon (1757 - 1824), fourth cousin of...
  9. Frederick Augustus I of Saxony (1750 - 1827), father of...
  10. Princess Maria Augusta of Saxony (1782 - 1863), niece of...
  11. Anthony of Saxony (1755 - 1836), brother of...
  12. Maximilian, Hereditary Prince of Saxony (1759 - 1838), brother of...
  13. Princess Maria Amalia of Saxony (1757 - 1831), sister of...
  14. Maria Anna of Saxony (1761 - 1820), first cousin of...
  15. Gräfin Elisabeth von der Lausitz, Princess of Saxony (1768 - 1844), mother of...
  16. Charles Philippe de Preissac, 1.Duc de Firmacon, 2.Duc d'Esclignac (1790 - 1873), brother of...
  17. Henri Ernest Charles de Preissac, Comte d'Esclignac (1796 - 1865), brother of...
  18. Marie Charlotte de Preissac d'Esclignac (1788 - 1858), niece of...
  19. Gräfin Maria Anna von der Lausitz, Princess of Saxony (1770 - 1845), mother of...
  20. Principe Don Clemente Altieri, Principe di Oriolo (1795 - 1873), brother of...
  21. Don Augusto, dei Principi Altieri (1797 - 1860), brother of...
  22. Cardinal Don Lodovico, dei Principi Altieri (1805 - 1867), first cousin of...
  23. Donna Giovanna Riario-Sforza, dei Duchi Riario-Sforza (1797 - 1855), niece of...
  24. Gräfin Cunegonda von der Lausitz, Princess of Saxony (1774 - 1828), mother of...
  25. Marchese Don Francesco Saverio Patrizi Naro Montoro (1797 - 1881), brother of...
  26. Marchese Don Constantino Patrizi Naro Montoro (1798 - 1876), brother of...
  27. Marchese Don Filippo Patrizi Naro Montoro (1801 - 1858), nephew of...
  28. Gräfin Maria Christina Sabina von der Lausitz, Princess of Saxony (1775 - 1837), mother of...
  29. Principe Don Camillo Massimo, Principe di Arsoli (1803 - 1873), brother of...
  30. Don Francesco Saverio, dei Principi Massimo (1806 - 1848), brother of...
  31. Donna Giuseppina, dei Principi Massimo (1799 - 1862), sister of...
  32. Donna Teresa Massimo, dei Principi Massimo (1801 - 1858), first cousin once removed of...
  33. Princess Maria Christina of Saxony (1770 - 1851), mother of...
  34. Charles Albert of Sardinia (1798 - 1849), brother of...
  35. Princess Elisabeth of Savoy (1800 - 1856), grandniece of...
  36. Albert Casimir, Duke of Teschen (1738 - 1822), brother of...
  37. Clemens Wenceslaus of Saxony (1739 - 1812), uncle of...
  38. Charles IV of Spain (1748 - 1819), brother of...
  39. Ferdinand I of the Two Sicilies (1751 - 1825), uncle of...
  40. Infante Pedro Carlos of Spain and Portugal (1786 - 1812), nephew of...
  41. Infante Antonio Pascual of Spain (1755 - 1817), nephew of...
  42. Maria Elisabeth of Saxony (1736 - 1818), sister of...
  43. Maria Kunigunde of Saxony (1740 - 1826), fourth cousin of...
  44. George III of the United Kingdom (1738 - 1820), father of...
  45. George IV of the United Kingdom (1762 - 1830), father of...
  46. Princess Charlotte of Wales (1796 - 1817), niece of...
  47. Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany (1763 - 1827), brother of...
  48. William IV of the United Kingdom (1765 - 1837), brother of...
  49. Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (1767 - 1820), brother of...
  50. Ernest Augustus, King of Hanover (1771 - 1851).
Current number of heirs: 200.

TO BE CONTINUED...
Queenslander

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Reply with quote  #26 
At this point I sort of feel that we have completed a genealogical 'lap' of some sort.
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Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #27 
Fifth part of:

II. Other descendants of James VI and I (1566 - 1625):
  1. Prince Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex (1773 - 1843), father of...
  2. Augustus d'Este (1794 - 1848), brother of...
  3. Augusta Emma Wilde, Baroness Truro (1801 - 1866), niece of...
  4. Prince Adolphus, Duke of Cambridge (1774 - 1850), brother of...
  5. Charlotte, Princess Royal (1766 - 1828), sister of...
  6. Princess Augusta Sophia of the United Kingdom (1768 - 1840), sister of...
  7. Princess Elizabeth of the United Kingdom (1770 - 1840), sister of...
  8. Princess Mary, Duchess of Gloucester and Edinburgh (1776 - 1857), sister of...
  9. Princess Sophia of the United Kingdom (1777 - 1848), sister of...
  10. Princess Amelia of the United Kingdom (1783 - 1810), first cousin of...
  11. Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh (1776 - 1834), brother of...
  12. Princess Sophia of Gloucester (1773 - 1844), niece of...
  13. Princess Augusta of Great Britain (1737 - 1813), mother of...
  14. Georg Wilhelm Christian of Brunswick (1769 - 1811), brother of...
  15. August of Brunswick (1770 - 1822), brother of...
  16. Frederick William, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1771 - 1815), father of...
  17. Charles II, Duke of Brunswick (1804 - 1873), brother of...
  18. William, Duke of Brunswick (1806 - 1884), first cousin of...
  19. William I of Württemberg (1781 - 1864), brother of...
  20. Prince Paul of Württemberg (1785 - 1852), father of...
  21. Princess Charlotte of Württemberg (1807 - 1873), niece of...
  22. Catharina of Württemberg (1783 - 1835), niece of...
  23. Caroline of Brunswick (1768 - 1821), first cousin of...
  24. Frederick VI of Denmark (1768 - 1839), father of...
  25. Princess Caroline of Denmark (1793 - 1881), niece of...
  26. Princess Louise Augusta of Denmark (1771 - 1843), mother of...
  27. Christian August II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg (1798 - 1869), brother of...
  28. Prince Frederick of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg (1800 - 1865), brother of...
  29. Caroline Amalie of Augustenburg (1796 - 1881), second cousin once removed of...
  30. William I of the Netherlands (1772 - 1843), father of...
  31. William II of the Netherlands (1792 - 1849), brother of...
  32. Prince Frederick of the Netherlands (1797 - 1881), nephew of...
  33. Princess Louise of Orange-Nassau (1770 - 1819), first cousin of...
  34. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg (1768 - 1816), father of...
  35. William, Duke of Nassau (1792 - 1839), brother of...
  36. Friedrich Wilhelm of Nassau-Weilburg (1799 - 1845), brother of...
  37. Princess Henrietta of Nassau-Weilburg (1797 - 1829), niece of...
  38. Wilhelmine Luise of Nassau-Weilburg (1765 - 1837), mother of...
  39. Heinrich XIX, Prince Reuss of Greiz (1790 - 1836), brother of...
  40. Heinrich XX, Prince Reuss of Greiz (1794 - 1859), nephew of...
  41. Karoline Luise Friederike of Nassau-Weilburg (1770 - 1828), sister of...
  42. Amelia of Nassau-Weilburg (1776 - 1841), mother of...
  43. Princess Hermine of Anhalt-Bernburg-Schaumburg-Hoym (1797 - 1817), sister of...
  44. Princess Adelheid of Anhalt-Bernburg-Schaumburg-Hoym (1800 - 1820), sister of...
  45. Princess Emma of Anhalt-Bernburg-Schaumburg-Hoym (1802 - 1858), sister of...
  46. Princess Ida of Anhalt-Bernburg-Schaumburg-Hoym (1804 - 1828), niece of...
  47. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg (1780 - 1857), mother of...
  48. Duke Alexander of Württemberg (1804 - 1885), brother of...
  49. Duchess Maria Dorothea of Württemberg (1797 - 1855), sister of...
  50. Duchess Amelia of Württemberg (1799 - 1848).
Current number of heirs: 250.

Disclaimer: The two children of the (then) Duke of Sussex have been included, as they were only excluded from the succession for the British throne, ironically. I suppose that the Jacobites would have thought of them as being fully legitimate, as they were born in wedlock.
Incidentally, the Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel could have been shown as a monarch, as he had been deposed mere days before and his Duchy became part of the Kingdom of Westphalia. He was thus a pretender, far from being the only one at the time.

TO BE CONTINUED...
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #28 
Sixth part of:

II. Other descendants of James VI and I (1566 - 1625):
  1. Pauline Therese of Württemberg (1800 - 1873), sister of...
  2. Duchess Elisabeth Alexandrine of Württemberg (1802 - 1864), first cousin twice removed of...
  3. William I, Elector of Hesse (1743 - 1821), father of...
  4. William II, Elector of Hesse (1777 - 1847), father of...
  5. Frederick William, Elector of Hesse (1802 - 1875), brother of...
  6. Karoline of Hesse-Kassel (1799 - 1854), sister of...
  7. Princess Marie Frederica of Hesse-Kassel (1804 - 1888), niece of...
  8. Marie Friederike of Hesse-Kassel (1768 - 1839), mother of...
  9. Alexander Karl, Duke of Anhalt-Bernburg (1805 - 1863), brother of...
  10. Princess Luise of Anhalt-Bernburg (1799 - 1882), niece of...
  11. Princess Karoline Amalie of Hesse-Kassel (1771 - 1848), niece of...
  12. Prince Charles of Hesse-Kassel (1744 - 1836), father of...
  13. Prince Frederik of Hesse (1771 - 1845), brother of...
  14. Prince Christian of Hesse (1776 - 1814), brother of...
  15. Marie of Hesse-Kassel (1767 - 1852), sister of...
  16. Juliane, Princess of Hesse (1773 - 1860), sister of...
  17. Princess Louise Caroline of Hesse-Kassel (1789 - 1867), niece of...
  18. Prince Frederick of Hesse-Kassel (1747 - 1837), father of...
  19. Prince William of Hesse-Kassel (1787 - 1867), brother of...
  20. Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (1790 - 1876), brother of...
  21. Georg Karl of Hesse-Kassel (1793 - 1881), brother of...
  22. Luise Karoline Marie Friederike of Hesse-Kassel (1794 - 1881), sister of...
  23. Princess Marie of Hesse-Kassel (1796 - 1880), sister of...
  24. Princess Augusta of Hesse-Kassel (1797 - 1889), first cousin once removed of...
  25. Christian VII of Denmark (1749 - 1808), brother of...
  26. Sophia Magdalena of Denmark (1746 - 1813), mother of...
  27. Gustav IV Adolf of Sweden (1778 - 1837), father of...
  28. Gustav, Prince of Vasa (1799 - 1877), brother of...
  29. Princess Sophie of Sweden (1801 - 1865), sister of...
  30. Princess Amalia of Sweden (1805 - 1853), sister of...
  31. Princess Cecilia of Sweden (1807 - 1844), grandniece of...
  32. Princess Wilhelmina Caroline of Denmark (1747 - 1820), sister of...
  33. Princess Louise of Denmark (1750 - 1831), second cousin once removed of...
  34. Frederick William III of Prussia (1770 - 1840), father of...
  35. Frederick William IV of Prussia (1795 - 1861), brother of...
  36. William I, German Emperor (1797 - 1888), brother of...
  37. Prince Charles of Prussia (1801 - 1883), brother of...
  38. Alexandra Feodorovna/Charlotte of Prussia (1798 - 1860), sister of...
  39. Princess Alexandrine of Prussia (1803 - 1892), first cousin of...
  40. Prince Frederick of Prussia (1794 - 1863), brother of...
  41. Princess Frederica of Prussia (1796 - 1850), niece of...
  42. Prince Henry of Prussia (1781 - 1846), brother of...
  43. Prince Wilhelm of Prussia (1783 - 1851), half-brother of...
  44. Princess Frederica Charlotte of Prussia (1767 - 1820), half-sister of...
  45. Wilhelmine of Prussia, Queen of the Netherlands (1774 - 1837), sister of...
  46. Princess Augusta of Prussia (1780 - 1841), niece of...
  47. Wilhelmina of Prussia, Princess of Orange (1751 - 1820), niece of...
  48. Prince Augustus Ferdinand of Prussia (1730 - 1813), father of...
  49. Prince Augustus of Prussia (1779 - 1843), brother of...
  50. Princess Louise of Prussia (1770 - 1836).
Current number of heirs: 300.

TO BE CONCLUDED...
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #29 
Seventh (and final) part of:

II. Other descendants of James VI and I (1566 - 1625):
  1. Wilhelm Paweł Radziwiłł (1797 - 1870), brother of...
  2. Ferdynant Fryderyk Radziwiłł (1798 - 1827), first cousin once removed of...
  3. Princess Sophie Caroline of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1737 - 1817), aunt of...
  4. Karl August, Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach (1757 - 1828), father of...
  5. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach (1783 - 1853), brother of...
  6. Prince Bernhard of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach (1792 - 1862), brother of...
  7. Princess Caroline Louise of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach (1786 - 1816), grandniece of...
  8. Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel, Crown Princess of Prussia (1746 - 1840), sister of...
  9. Augusta Dorothea, Abbess of Gandersheim (1749 - 1810), first cousin once removed of...
  10. Frederick I of Württemberg (1754 - 1816), brother of...
  11. Duke Louis of Württemberg (1756 - 1817), father of...
  12. Duke Adam of Württemberg (1792 - 1847), nephew of...
  13. Duke Eugen of Württemberg (1758 - 1822), father of...
  14. Duke Eugen of Württemberg (1788 - 1857), brother of...
  15. Duke Paul Wilhelm of Württemberg (1797 - 1860), brother of...
  16. Duchess Louise of Württemberg (1789 - 1851), niece of...
  17. Duke William Frederick Philip of Württemberg (1761 - 1830), father of...
  18. Alexander of Württemberg (1801 - 1844), brother of...
  19. August of Württemberg (1805 - 1808), nephew of...
  20. Duke Ferdinand Augustus Frederick of Württemberg (1763 - 1834), brother of...
  21. Duke Alexander of Württemberg (1771 - 1833), father of...
  22. Duke Alexander of Württemberg (1804 - 1881), brother of...
  23. Duchess Marie of Württemberg (1799 - 1860), niece of...
  24. Duke Charles Henry of Württemberg (1772 - 1833), father of...
  25. Marie, Gräfin von Urach (1802 - 1882), sister of...
  26. Alexandrine, Gräfin von Urach (1803 - 1884), sister of...
  27. Elisabeth, Gräfin von Urach (1805 - 1819), niece of...
  28. Maria Feodorovna/Sophie Dorothea of Württemberg (1759 - 1828), mother of...
  29. Alexander I of Russia (1777 - 1825), father of...
  30. Grand Duchess Elizabeth Alexandrovna of Russia (1806 - 1808), niece of...
  31. Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich of Russia (1779 - 1831), brother of...
  32. Nicholas I of Russia (1796 - 1855), brother of...
  33. Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich of Russia (1798 - 1849), uncle of...
  34. Paul Frederick, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1800 - 1842), brother of...
  35. Duchess Marie Louise of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1803 - 1862), niece of...
  36. Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna of Russia (1786 - 1859), sister of...
  37. Catherine Pavlovna of Russia (1788 - 1819), sister of...
  38. Anna Pavlovna of Russia (1795 - 1865), first cousin of...
  39. Augustus, Grand Duke of Oldenburg (1783 - 1853), brother of...
  40. Duke George of Oldenburg (1784 - 1812), grandnephew of...
  41. Princess Anna Elisabeth Louise of Brandenburg-Schwedt (1738 - 1820), first cousin of...
  42. Charles XIII of Sweden (1748 - 1818), brother of...
  43. Sophia Albertina, Abbess of Quedlinburg (1753 - 1829).
Total number of heirs: 343.

Nearly 350 people! Phew!

Once again, I'm going to present the European monarchs at that time, but let us see first which Heads of State weren't descended from King James I of England:
1) Those of the countries with a republican form of government. Now, the French Revolution changed things here and there, but San Marino and Switzerland (almost completely republican) were still present. The Pope wasn't a descendant either.
2) The monarchies which were headed by a member of the House of Bonaparte (or a relative, or a "friend"). The primary example here is the French Empire. King Louis XVIII was just a claimant during this time.
3) Several members of the Confederation of the Rhine. Perhaps the most surprising omission is the King of Bavaria, but he just wasn't a relevant descendant.
4) Others. Apart from the obvious exclusion of the Ottoman Empire, we don't see the monarchs of Portugal and Monaco. The former gap would be filled in 1826, while the latter has never been, as the present Prince still isn't a descendant of James I.

Now, let's have a look at how Henry Stuart was related to the bolded men above. Once again, I have taken the relationship according to the line of succession, rather than the closest one. The links, however, do show them:

1) To Vittorio Emanuele I, King of Sardinia (1802 - 1821): second cousin twice removed.
2) To Luigi II, King of Etruria (1803 - 1807): second cousin five times removed.
3) To Franz, Emperor of Austria* (1806 - 1835): third cousin three times removed.
4) To Ferdinand, Grand Duke of Würzburg (1805 - 1814): third cousin three times removed.
5) To Konstantin, (Co-) Prince of Salm** (1806 - 1811): third cousin three times removed.
6) To Friedrich August I, King of Saxony (1806 - 1827): third cousin three times removed.
7) To Carlos IV, King of Spain (1788 - 1808): third cousin three times removed.
8) To Ferdinando III, King of Sicily*** (1759 - 1816): third cousin three times removed.
9) To George III, King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland**** (1801 - 1820): third cousin twice removed.
10) To Friedrich Wilhelm, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg***** (1806 - 1816): third cousin three times removed.
11) To Christian VII, King of Denmark and Norway (1766 - 1808): third cousin twice removed.
12) To Gustaf IV Adolf, King of Sweden (1792 - 1809): third cousin three times removed.
13) To Friedrich Wilhelm III, King of Prussia (1797 - 1840): third cousin three times removed.
14) To Karl August, Duke of Saxe-Weimar and Saxe-Eisenach (1806 - 1809): third cousin three times removed.
15) To Friedrich I, King of Württemberg (1806 - 1816): third cousin three times removed.
16) To Alexander I, Emperor of Russia (1801 - 1825): third cousin four times removed.

This project is now complete.
-----------------------------------
* He had been Holy Roman Emperor (as Franz II) from 1792 to 1806. He assumed the title of "Emperor of Austria" in 1804. I have taken the other German rulers as being sovereign only from 1806, as well.
** The other one was his kinsman, Frederick IV, Prince of Salm-Kyrburg (1789 - 1859).
*** He had also been King of Naples from 1759 to 1799 and from 1799 to 1806 (as Ferdinando IV).
**** He had previously been King of Great Britain and Ireland (as separate realms) from 1760 to 1800.
***** He reigned alongside his relative, Frederick Augustus, Duke of Nassau (1738 - 1816).
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #30 
Matrilineal Musings

As readers of this forum ought to know, agnatic primogeniture is a method of succession in which the father is succeeded by his eldest son. In addition, the throne may not pass to (or through) a woman, unless it's semi-Salic, of course.

Below, you will see a line, which begins with a very popular female monarch of the past and her senior female line descendants. I'll call this "enatic primogeniture". Let us see where it leads us.

Original line:
  1. Queen Victoria (1819 - 1901), mother of...
  2. Victoria, Princess Royal (1840 - 1901), mother of...
  3. Princess Charlotte of Prussia (1860 - 1919), mother of...
  4. Princess Feodora of Saxe-Meiningen (1879 - 1945), first cousin of...

First cadet branch [Descended from Victoria, Princess Royal, through her daughter, Sophia of Prussia]:
  1. Helen of Greece and Denmark (1896 - 1982), sister of...
  2. Princess Katherine of Greece and Denmark (1913 - 2007), second cousin twice removed of...

Second cadet branch [Descended from Queen Victoria through her granddaughter, Princess Victoria of Hesse and by Rhine]:
  1. Princess Margarita of Baden (1932 - 2013), mother of...
  2. Princess Katarina of Yugoslavia (b. 1959).
In case anyone's wondering, Princess Katarina appears to be in the British line of succession. Makes sense to me.

I may show other such descents in the future...

EDIT: I had accidentally neglected to mention that all of these women and their female line descendants should belong to mtDNA haplogroup H.
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