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azadi

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Spain
Catalonia
The Basque Country
Portugal
Andorra
France
Monaco
Luxembourg
Belgium (Wallonia, Eupen and Sankt Vith)
Flanders (including Brussels)
The Netherlands
Ireland
Schleswig-Holstein
Lower Saxony
Hamburg
Bremen
Nord Rhine-Westphalia
Rhineland-Palatinate
Saarland
Hesse
Baden-Württemberg
Bavaria
Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
Saxony
Saxony-Anhalt
Thuringia
Brandenburg
Berlin
Austria (including South Tirol)
Padania (Piedmont, Liguria, Aosta Valley, Lombardy and Emilia-Romagna)
Veneto (Veneto, Trentino and Friuli-Venezia Giulia)

Etruria (Tuscany, Lazio, Umbria and Marche)
San Marino
Mezzogiorno (Campania, Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia, Basilicata and Calabria)
Sicily
Sardinia
Malta
Poland
Czechia
Slovakia
Hungary
Slovenia
Croatia
Bosnia-Herzegovina (not including Republika Srpska)
Montenegro
Albania (including South Kosovo)
North Macedonia
Bulgaria
Romania (including Moldova)
Greece
South Cyprus
Finland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Ukraine (not including Crimea)
Peter

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Azadi hates Lady Thatcher because she wanted Germany kept in two parts. Now he wants Germany broken up into sixteen parts. In the interests of fairness, should Azadi hate himself? Discuss.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Azadi hates Lady Thatcher because she wanted Germany kept in two parts. Now he wants Germany broken up into sixteen parts. In the interests of fairness, should Azadi hate himself? Discuss.

I hate Lady Thatcher, because she wanted Germany to be kept in two parts against the will of the vast majority of the East Germans. I'm opposed to Germany being broken up, unless the EU becomes a federation. Keeping the German federation won't make sense, if the Federal Republic of Germany ceases to be a sovereign state, because most of the powers of the federal government of Germany will be transferred to the federal government of the EU. The Länder of Germany deserves to be member states of a federal EU, because of their strong regional identities. In Schleswig-Holstein, where I live, using the flag of Schleswig-Holstein is more common than using the flag of Germany.
Peter

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So you want no unifying German identity, instead you want the country divided into sixteen parts, each part subject to a remote and non-German central authority. Yet Lady Thatcher (and she was wrong about this) is hateful to you because she wanted there to continue to be two sovereign German states. I think our old friend cognitive dissonance is rearing its head again here,
MatthewJTaylor

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Why is only Germany split into its federal components?
Surely the same arguement applies to most federal European states?

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Peter

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To be fair, two bits of Spain have been hived off. Belgium is broken into three (bye-bye, Belgian monarchy), which really should be four assuming Brussels is the federal capital. Italy is in five pieces. So although Germany has basically been fed through a sausage grinder, Belgium and Italy have also been cut into proportionally rather larger portions and Spain has suffered a couple of amputations. The surprising thing is that France is still in one piece, although a small part of it may have been abstracted if 'Basque Country' means more than just the Spanish portion thereof.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
To be fair, two bits of Spain have been hived off. Belgium is broken into three (bye-bye, Belgian monarchy), which really should be four assuming Brussels is the federal capital. Italy is in five pieces. So although Germany has basically been fed through a sausage grinder, Belgium and Italy have also been cut into proportionally rather larger portions and Spain has suffered a couple of amputations. The surprising thing is that France is still in one piece, although a small part of it may have been abstracted if 'Basque Country' means more than just the Spanish portion thereof.

I have proposed dividing Germany, because I don't want the Länder of Germany to lose their autonomy. Thatcher supported preventing German reunification against the will of the vast majority of the East Germans. I don't support dissolving the German federation without the consent of the majority of the Germans.
The King of Belgium will become King of Wallonia. Brussels is part of Wallonia. France is still in one piece, because France is a unitary state, unlike Germany. Kosovo has been divided between Serbia and Albania. Republika Srpska has joined Serbia. Moldova has rejoined Romania. South Tirol has rejoined Austria.

MatthewJTaylor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I have proposed dividing Germany, because I don't want the Länder of Germany to lose their autonomy. Thatcher supported preventing German reunification against the will of the vast majority of the East Germans. I don't support dissolving the German federation without the consent of the majority of the Germans.
The King of Belgium will become King of Wallonia. Brussels is part of Wallonia. France is still in one piece, because France is a unitary state, unlike Germany. Kosovo has been divided between Serbia and Albania. Republika Srpska has joined Serbia. Moldova has rejoined Romania. South Tirol has rejoined Austria.


Could you produce a map of this potential superstate to help us see what you mean?

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Peter

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Ah, I see. The capital of the superstate will be Paris, not Brussels. Obviously, with the only other (former) country capable of standing up against it sliced into tiny little pieces, France will dominate. It's nice that the Belgian monarchy hasn't been destroyed, only deprived of half its realm and the name Belgian.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Ah, I see. The capital of the superstate will be Paris, not Brussels. Obviously, with the only other (former) country capable of standing up against it sliced into tiny little pieces, France will dominate. It's nice that the Belgian monarchy hasn't been destroyed, only deprived of half its realm and the name Belgian.

I want the EU to remain a union of sovereign states and I want Germany to remain united, but Germany remaining united won't make much sense to me, if the member states of a hypothetical federal EU will enjoy no more autonomy than the Länder of Germany currently enjoys. I support Germany being united as a federation, but I'm strongly opposed to Germany becoming a unitary state, because the German Länder once were independent states. Schleswig and Holstein were independent states in personal union with Denmark before 1864. I don't want Schleswig-Holstein to be reduced to a province.
bator

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I want the EU to remain a union of sovereign states and I want Germany to remain united, but Germany remaining united won't make much sense to me, if the member states of a hypothetical federal EU will enjoy no more autonomy than the Länder of Germany currently enjoys. I support Germany being united as a federation, but I'm strongly opposed to Germany becoming a unitary state, because the German Länder once were independent states. Schleswig and Holstein were independent states in personal union with Denmark before 1864. I don't want Schleswig-Holstein to be reduced to a province.
I have changed my mind on Italy, because Veneto is culturally very different from the rest of North Italy. Veneto ought to become an independent member state of a federal EU. 
I'm not opposed to Wallonia keeping the name Belgium, if Flanders secede from Belgium.


do you live in slesvig or holstein if i may ask?
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bator


do you live in slesvig or holstein if i may ask?

South Schleswig.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Ah, I see. The capital of the superstate will be Paris, not Brussels. Obviously, with the only other (former) country capable of standing up against it sliced into tiny little pieces, France will dominate. It's nice that the Belgian monarchy hasn't been destroyed, only deprived of half its realm and the name Belgian.

I have changed my mind on Belgium and Italy. Brussels ought to become part of Flanders, because Brussels is historically part of Flanders. Wallonia ought to keep the name Belgium, because the Germans of Eupen and Sankt Vith prefer being Belgians to being Walloons. Flanders shall be a republic and rump Belgium shall be a kingdom. 
I have proposed dividing mainland Italy into three states, because Lega Nord once proposed dividing mainland Italy into three macroregions (Padania, Etruria and South Italy). I have changed my mind on Italy, because Venetian regionalism is very strong. Veneto ought to become an independent member state of a federal EU.

azadi

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Italian member states of a federal EU:
Padania (Lombardy, Piedmont, Valle d'Aosta, Liguria and Emilia-Romagna are the constituent regions of Padania. Milan is the capital of Padania).
Veneto (Veneto, Trentino and Friuli-Venezia Giulia are the constituent regions of Veneto. South Tirol has joined Austria. Venice is the capital of Veneto).
Etruria (Lazio, Tuscany, Umbria and Marche are the constituent regions of Etruria. Rome is the capital of Etruria).
Mezzogiorno (Campania, Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia, Basilicata and Calabria. The city of Naples is the capital of Naples).
Sicily (Palermo is the capital of Sicily).
Sardinia (Cagliari is the capital of Sardinia).
bator

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I have changed my mind on Belgium and Italy. Brussels ought to become part of Flanders, because Brussels is historically part of Flanders. Wallonia ought to keep the name Belgium, because the Germans of Eupen and Sankt Vith prefer being Belgians to being Walloons. Flanders shall be a republic and rump Belgium shall be a kingdom. 


brussels as part of flanders makes sense, but flanders as a republic NO NO NO it should either stay a part of the kingdom of belgium, or unite with the kingdom of netherlands. this is high treason to promote republicanism on this forum. i definitely think royalcello would feel like throwing up if he saw this. 
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