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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #46 

The Occasional 'the centre cannot hold', or 'its been all down hill since 1911 is one thing.

To create an thread to speak of gloom an doom another.

Let us be aware of the rabble, but not give the pride of place, shall we?


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The_Royalist

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Reply with quote  #47 
Gloom is just part of it, certainly i am in a pessimist mood, but i really wanted to talk about the state of the monarchy in general.
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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #48 
http://radicalroyalist.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/forgetful-republicans.html

The excellent Radical Royalist blog is always thoughtful and on the mark.
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #49 

You (our friend The Royalist) are giving these rabble rousers way more attention than they deserve.  I am convinced that while the King's personal reputation has taken a serious hit, the monarchy remains safe.  The King of Sweden if you recall was buffeted with a rather damaging scandal not long ago and was widely ridiculed, his reputation shredded.  The allegations agains King Carl Gustav were far more serious in my opinion, involving his personal connection to mobsters and attendance at sex parties.  King Juan Carlos' problems pale in comparison.  The Swedish monarchy remains secure however, with Crown Princess Victoria far more popular than her father.  The Prince of Asturias remains unblemished, and neither the government nor the opposition in Spain has shown any significant leanings towards scrapping the monarchy.  Naturally we should be aware of the rable and their demands, but let's not start wringing our hands over a bunch of people who really have little long term impact on constitutional arrangements.


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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #50 
Wise words, Ethiomonarchist. I make the point that the best advertisement for monarchies are republics by virtue of their failures, and one of the best advertisements for monarchism are often republicans themselves, whose antics can only alienate those in the middle.
JonathanCid

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Reply with quote  #51 
It's ironic that HM the King restored democracy in Spain through parliament, and even subverted right-wing extremists who tried to undermine HM's democratic government. It doesn't surprise me that the forgetful hypocrites behind a good deal of these protests are far-left communists who've been running around waving their blood-stained hammer and sickle flags. I say that as a liberal with no stomach for the far left or political extremism in general.
 
Does anyone think they pose a serious threat to the Crown? Or can we in fact dismiss them and pay them no mind?

I really doubt they represent the Spanish mainstream, so I'm going to lean in the direction of dismissing, in Ethio's words, the "rabble rousers."

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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #52 
The Republican left does not represent a significant force in Spanish politics, behind the PP, PSOE and the regionalist parties (who themselves are ideologically divergent). Ironically, many regionalists and even "moderate republicans" sat in the middle in 1936 and at times tried to make common cause with the royalists as they were scared of what the Popular Front was going to do. Which turned out to be right since that year, as a prelude to war, monarchists like Victor Pradera (a Carlist) and José Calvo Sotelo, and even a "moderate republican" in Melquiades Alvarez, were all murdered. Politics made strange bedfellows even then.

Notice in that 1936 election, the Popular Front could only win a majority because the anti-Communist forces which outvoted them were split between the right-wing (nationalist and royalist) and centre (regionalists and "moderate republicans") who combined won over half the popular vote. Pragmatically-speaking, in an era where one could not be choosy with their allies, all of them should have pulled together to defeat the Popular Front, or was it wishful thinking? Could they, theoretically (leaving aside the succession question that, apart from misguided Carlists, would have been definitively solved in 1936) have been able to restore the monarchy and make a settlement that excluded extremists? In 1933, the right-wing royalist forces actually won a plurality the second elections of the Second Republic, and formed a coalition with the republican faction of Alejandro Lerroux (one of the few republicans who returned to Spain under Franco, thus likely regarded by republicans as a "traitor" to their cause). The Lerroux-Gil Robles coalition did not last long, which was a prelude to 1936.

The right-wing coalition was dominated by Alfonsine and Carlist monarchists. The Falange was not strongly represented, if at all, in the Cortes then. Carlists and Falangists never really agreed on many things, not least was the issue of centralism vs regionalism. The Carlists, after all, had strong Basque and Catalan support (which remain their strongholds even today),  and the First Carlist War was in part a reaction to the incorporation of the Kingdom of Navarre into Spain, and hopes in Aragon, Catalonia and Valencia to overturn the Nueva Planta decrees of 1707. Navarre was a bedrock of support for the Nationalist side in the Civil War. Hence, ironically, contemporary Basque and Catalan regionalism and even nationalism were influenced by Carlism. A similar relationship between Jacobitism and Scottish and Irish causes is to be noted. However, militant Basque and Catalan separatism, like Scottish separatism and Irish republicanism, is decidedly leftist, secular and Jacobin in nature.

I see some parallels between 1930s Spain and Nepal today. For the Popular Front read the Maoists, for the Nationalist side read the royalists, and the "bourgeois democrats" and Left groups are those in the middle and scared of what the Maoists want to do to them...

Almost no monarchy was abolished democratically. The Italian referendum in 1946 did not meet democratic standards, just as the failure to restore the Albanian monarchy in 1997 was the result of a similarly undemocratic referendum. Spanish republicans, whose support is overestimated (as the Radical Royalist blog points out), have no trouble accommodating Communist flags at their protests, an indicator they aren't really fussed about democracy either, as virtually no Communist regime was elected democratically.
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #53 
Calls for King Juan Carolos to abdicate in favor of the Prince of Asturias have increased as his reputation and popularity take a beating.  The press is openly referring to Princess Corinna Sayn-Wittgenstein as the King's mistress and public sympathy for Queen Sofia is quite high.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/18/spain-royals-idUSL5N0D51BU20130418

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #54 
Not good. And what is all these "young people" who supposedly want a republic? What is wrong with them?  I've been a monarchist since I was 12.
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #55 

Half of the people responding to the polls what the King to abdicate in favor of his son, while a minority want to do away with the monarchy all together.  A clear majority want to keep the monarchy either under the king or his heir.


In related news, the advertising industry is being as tasteless as always in it's approach to the alleged infidelity of the King of Spain.  A dating service for would-be adulterers has been made to apologize to H.M. Queen Sofia.  They had previously been made to bring down a billboard that showed King Juan Carlos, The Prince of Wales and President Clinton suggesting that the three men would have saved themselves considerable trouble if they had used the services offered by this offensive organization.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/04/17/inenglish/1366215043_602361.html


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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
The_Royalist

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Not good. And what is all these "young people" who supposedly want a republic? What is wrong with them?  I've been a monarchist since I was 12.

Borne under the aegis of Americanism, they do not know any better, and leftists are very keen to manipulate. 

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According to republicans, a bad monarch is the system fault, but a bad president is its own fault ONLY.
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