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jovan66102

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This was sent to me by a friend.

Former Spanish king announces he’s leaving country after Saudi rail corruption scandal explodes


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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Admiral_Horthy

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Leaving the country is cowardly if he did no wrong. he simply makes himself and by extension his son look bad. If innocent he should stay and fight for his innocence. I grieve for Spain, this is just another problem that can
lead to instability and the break up of the country.
Elizabelo_II

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This is really not a good look.
Domhangairt

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Horthy
Leaving the country is cowardly if he did no wrong. he simply makes himself and by extension his son look bad. If innocent he should stay and fight for his innocence. I grieve for Spain, this is just another problem that can
lead to instability and the break up of the country.
  Recent opinion polls indicate the the Monarchy may not survive this crisis. The present King enjoys the support of less than 50% of citizens inn seven regions at the moment. The Monarchy can be voted out if a majority of Spanish citizens vote to change the Constitution of 1987 in a referendum. If the Monarchy falls, then Spain will split up into several new countries. It is possible that the Borbons might remain as monarchs in Aragon and Castilla. 
bator

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domhangairt
  Recent opinion polls indicate the the Monarchy may not survive this crisis. The present King enjoys the support of less than 50% of citizens inn seven regions at the moment. The Monarchy can be voted out if a majority of Spanish citizens vote to change the Constitution of 1987 in a referendum. If the Monarchy falls, then Spain will split up into several new countries. It is possible that the Borbons might remain as monarchs in Aragon and Castilla. 


wasnt it constitution of 1977? this sounds sad. when you write the king lacks support is that equal to say that a majority in these regions would want a republic? and can you tell me which of the regions it is or provide us with a link? this is so sad news.

i fear that denying the catalans a vote on independence might just drive them even more republican. i think a compromise should be considered in which the catalans should get to vote for independence on the conditions that they would keep the monarchy (perhaps under their own monarch also descending from the counts of barcelona) and promise to wait 100 years before they could vote on the fate of the monarchy. and it should be a part of the agreed and written compromise that if catalonia abolishes the monarchy before the time has passed, or does so after the time has passed, but without a referendum, then spain should have the right to intervene and re annex catalonia. that would be my suggestions, as i think 100 years of independence with their own monarchs would be enough time to make it take roots and gain popularity. this should be signed by catalan leaders, and if they refuse to the agreement, then they can totally forget about any referendum. If they sign the agreement then they should also agree to and sign that breaking the agreement would be high treason and punishable by death. what do you dear fellow monarchists think of my idea? good or bad? would it be necessary in order to save the monarchy or not? feel free to tell me what you think and why. personally i think we have to think out of the box in these times where we unfortunately cannot crack down on republican scum with a good hanging. sorry if i exaggerate but it just makes me so sad to think we could loose another monarchy.
Domhangairt

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bator


wasnt it constitution of 1977? this sounds sad. when you write the king lacks support is that equal to say that a majority in these regions would want a republic? and can you tell me which of the regions it is or provide us with a link? this is so sad news.

i fear that denying the catalans a vote on independence might just drive them even more republican. i think a compromise should be considered in which the catalans should get to vote for independence on the conditions that they would keep the monarchy (perhaps under their own monarch also descending from the counts of barcelona) and promise to wait 100 years before they could vote on the fate of the monarchy. and it should be a part of the agreed and written compromise that if Catalonia abolishes the monarchy before the time has passed, or does so after the time has passed, but without a referendum, then spain should have the right to intervene and re annex Catalonia. that would be my suggestions, as i think 100 years of independence with their own monarchs would be enough time to make it take roots and gain popularity. this should be signed by catalan leaders, and if they refuse to the agreement, then they can totally forget about any referendum. If they sign the agreement then they should also agree to and sign that breaking the agreement would be high treason and punishable by death. what do you dear fellow monarchists think of my idea? good or bad? would it be necessary in order to save the monarchy or not? feel free to tell me what you think and why. personally i think we have to think out of the box in these times where we unfortunately cannot crack down on republican scum with a good hanging. sorry if i exaggerate but it just makes me so sad to think we could loose another monarchy.
Your idea sounds very noble, but it would never be adopted by the Catalonians. The Catalonian politicians are staunchly republican and socialist. Monarchy has always been controversial in Spain which experienced a horrible civil war in the 1930s. Juan Carlos is corrupt- he has destroyed the wonderful legacy he once created. If the Queen of England got involved in a public financial scandal like the Saudi scandal, the House of Windsor would not survive. His son Don Felipe has been losing support- long before the Saudi corruption scandal broke. So many of these royal houses destroy themselves through their own reckless behaviour: The French Bourbons and the Russian Romanovs come to mind.  We are living in a Republican age, and also the Information age: Europe's royal families have to be extremely disciplined in their personal lives and conduct if they want to have any chance of survival beyond 2050. The EU wants to phase out all monarchies in Europe. The EU's elite want a post-Christian, and post-monarchy order in Europe. Former EU Commission president Manoel Barroso said "We are building Europe's first non-imperial empire". In such an environment, how could Juan Carlos be so irresponsible?
Domhangairt

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bator


wasnt it constitution of 1977? this sounds sad. when you write the king lacks support is that equal to say that a majority in these regions would want a republic? and can you tell me which of the regions it is or provide us with a link? this is so sad news.

i fear that denying the catalans a vote on independence might just drive them even more republican. i think a compromise should be considered in which the catalans should get to vote for independence on the conditions that they would keep the monarchy (perhaps under their own monarch also descending from the counts of barcelona) and promise to wait 100 years before they could vote on the fate of the monarchy. and it should be a part of the agreed and written compromise that if catalonia abolishes the monarchy before the time has passed, or does so after the time has passed, but without a referendum, then spain should have the right to intervene and re annex catalonia. that would be my suggestions, as i think 100 years of independence with their own monarchs would be enough time to make it take roots and gain popularity. this should be signed by catalan leaders, and if they refuse to the agreement, then they can totally forget about any referendum. If they sign the agreement then they should also agree to and sign that breaking the agreement would be high treason and punishable by death. what do you dear fellow monarchists think of my idea? good or bad? would it be necessary in order to save the monarchy or not? feel free to tell me what you think and why. personally i think we have to think out of the box in these times where we unfortunately cannot crack down on republican scum with a good hanging. sorry if i exaggerate but it just makes me so sad to think we could loose another monarchy.
Further to my previous reply, there are three factors which will work in Don Felipe's favour at this time: (1) The national vote is fragmented at this time which means that none of the political parties have enough individual support to implement a referendum on the monarchy, (2) the main political parties will oppose a monarchy referendum if they believe that the demise of the monarchy will lead to the break up of the Spanish territorial state- this factor played a huge role in 2014 when there were widespread calls for a monarchy referendum, (3) there is a marked difference between the percentage of Spanish voters who are unhappy with the monarchy, and the percentage of voters who would actually vote for a republic if a referendum were held tomorrow.  Hopefully these factors will save the monarchy. 
Peter

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bator
wasnt it constitution of 1977?

1978.
Domhangairt

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
 
1978.
My apologies. Yes it was 1978, though several amendments have been made to that constitution, the latest was 2011.
Domhangairt

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Horthy
Leaving the country is cowardly if he did no wrong. he simply makes himself and by extension his son look bad. If innocent he should stay and fight for his innocence. I grieve for Spain, this is just another problem that can
lead to instability and the break up of the country.
My prediction is that the main political parties will block a monarchy referendum because it doesn't suit their interests. The fall of the Kingdom will almost certainly lead to the fragmentation of Spain. Questions also need to be asked about whether the Military would support a Third Republic. They have close ties with the royal family.  The military turned against the Second Republic precipitating the Spanish Civil War which cost the lives of 2 million Spaniards. No one wants a repeat of those days. Felipe seems to be free of scandal (so far), and his mother is very popular, she may end up saving the Crown. 
Domhangairt

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabelo_II
This is really not a good look.
Well the latest post dated 12 August on the Spanish royal family's website shows a smiling King Don Felipe together with a smiling Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez-Castejon on that day. So either this photo shoot is very deceptive, or the two of them are closer than they are letting on. Strengthens my opinion that the senior parties won't allow the Monarchy to fall coz it will lead to the break up of Spain, and possibly even civil war.  
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