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governor_general

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he makes some valid points.
MI-Frank-Feighan-Rolling-News.jpg http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/Irish-senator-calls-for-Ireland-to-rejoin-the-British-Commonwealth.html


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Admiral_Horthy

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Only if they enter into personal union with the Queen and her heirs.
DavidV

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While that is unlikely, a closer association of the Republic of Ireland with the Commonwealth is a possibility. I like many monarchists and Unionists have mixed feelings. Britain has a large number of immigrants from Ireland and from the Commonwealth, but not a few of them seem to harbour resentment of the very country they live in, a fact compounded by the fact that they almost invariably vote Labour and influence its policies.

Now this does not mean we bear any ill-will to these countries and peoples. Quite the opposite. Many Irish people detest Irish Republicanism (as opposed to the Irish Republic) as much as we do, and many will see the benefits both of EU withdrawal and closer links with the Commonwealth.
Admiral_Horthy

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Closer ties might be OK, but joining Ireland joining the Commonwealth, to me, threatens the role of the monarchy in the Commonwealth. I won't say any more since I was banned for life from another forum for pointing the very real threats facing the British, and all European, monarchies.
jovan66102

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Considering that the Commonwealth consists of 16 Commonwealth Realms, five monarchies with their own monarchs, and 32 republics, two of which were never part of the Empire, I'm not worried about any threat to the Monarchy. I would love to see Ireland rejoin. 

It's all Canada's fault anyway! His Excellency Field Marshal the Right Honourable the Viscount Alexander of Tunis, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief in and over Canada broke an agreement that there would be separate toasts for the King and for the President of Ireland, at a State Dinner for the Taoiseach, Seán Mac Coisdealbha (John Costello). The Irish position was that a toast to the King, instead of representing both countries, would not include Ireland. Only a toast to the King was proposed, to the fury of the Irish delegation. Shortly afterwards Costello announced the plan to declare the republic.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
DavidV

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There were plenty of opportunities, squandered by both Britain and Ireland, to retain some kind of link between the two nations. After all, the original Sinn Fein (which has nothing in common with the terrorist Republican party of today) program was for Dual Monarchy, and even in 1916 were for proposing an Irish monarchy of their own. Once Republicans took over, there was no chance of that happening, although Arthur Griffith and Michael Collins accepted the Treaty in 1922.

I would love a closer bond between Britain, the Commonwealth, the Republic of Ireland and the USA. We may be different but we have so much in common and we can work together for a better world.
governor_general

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidV
There were plenty of opportunities, squandered by both Britain and Ireland, to retain some kind of link between the two nations. After all, the original Sinn Fein (which has nothing in common with the terrorist Republican party of today) program was for Dual Monarchy, and even in 1916 were for proposing an Irish monarchy of their own. Once Republicans took over, there was no chance of that happening, although Arthur Griffith and Michael Collins accepted the Treaty in 1922.

I would love a closer bond between Britain, the Commonwealth, the Republic of Ireland and the USA. We may be different but we have so much in common and we can work together for a better world.
"of their own" you mean like the way New Zealand and the other realms have their own or looking for some of the old royal houses of Ireland?

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DavidV

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Quote:
Originally Posted by governor_general
"of their own" you mean like the way New Zealand and the other realms have their own or looking for some of the old royal houses of Ireland?


There were proposals at the time for an independent Ireland to have it own monarchy with an imported German prince, with Prince Joachim of Prussia being a touted candidate. They could have sought a descendant of one of Ireland's native royal families, though the idea of a German prince likely fit into German plans for reordering the European state system had they won World War I or sought peace earlier.
BaronVonServers

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Anyone who supports Northern Ireland becoming part of a Republic should repent of his sins immediately!

Eire could rejoin the commonwealth as a republic, or better yet, restore the Crown-in-Right.

 


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BaronVonServers

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What is about 'elections' that has stolen your fancy? 

Why would one wish to divest the Crown of Northern Ireland while claiming to be a monarchist?

I served with a gentleman whose wife was a Northern Ireland born Roman.  She would not take kindly to your consigning her to Republican rule.  Nor, I daresay,  would the majority of Her Majesty's Subjects (not that the Monarchy should be elective, but that your position is counter to the facts on the ground).


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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers

What is about 'elections' that has stolen your fancy? 

Why would one wish to divest the Crown of Northern Ireland while claiming to be a monarchist?

I served with a gentleman whose wife was a Northern Ireland born Roman.  She would not take kindly to your consigning her to Republican rule.  Nor, I daresay,  would the majority of Her Majesty's Subjects (not that the Monarchy should be elective, but that your position is counter to the facts on the ground).


I'm not opposed to British rule in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is a successor to the Kingdom of Ireland, which shared its monarch with Great Britain. But I'm opposed to religious sectarianism. The Democratic Unionist Party supports Protestant sectarianism, and it opposes official recognition of the Irish language. An Irishman ought to cherish the Irish language, but the Democratic Unionist Party despises the Irish language. Northern Irish unionism ought to be non-sectarian and to embrace the Irish language. 
Peter

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Northern Ireland is actually a successor to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, not to the Kingdom of Ireland directly, the latter having been abolished more than a hundred years before Northern Ireland itself became a political entity. The Irish language does have official status, recognition and support in Northern Ireland, and the DUP does not oppose this. However, as no more than one in 250 residents of the province has Irish as their first language the DUP does seem to feel that the current level of support is adequate, while nationalists seek to extend it; just one of the many issues dividing the communities, the most fundamental of which is of course religion. There are two sides to the sectarian coin, one Catholic and one Protestant. As I've said before I am no fan of the DUP, but it is wrong and unfair to assign sole blame for all the continuing problems to them when the other side is every bit as awkward and obstructive. Especially when what you are accusing the DUP of is not in fact true.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Northern Ireland is actually a successor to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, not to the Kingdom of Ireland directly, the latter having been abolished more than a hundred years before Northern Ireland itself became a political entity. The Irish language does have official status, recognition and support in Northern Ireland, and the DUP does not oppose this. However, as no more than one in 250 residents of the province has Irish as their first language the DUP does seem to feel that the current level of support is adequate, while nationalists seek to extend it; just one of the many issues dividing the communities, the most fundamental of which is of course religion. There are two sides to the sectarian coin, one Catholic and one Protestant. As I've said before I am no fan of the DUP, but it is wrong and unfair to assign sole blame for all the continuing problems to them when the other side is every bit as awkward and obstructive. Especially when what you are accusing the DUP of is not in fact true.

Catholic sectarianism emerged as a reaction to Protestant oppression. Sinn Fein has never supported oppression of Protestants. In the Republic of Ireland, Protestants and Catholics enjoy equal rights. The leaders of DUP despises the cultural heritage of Ireland, and consider themselves British rather than Irish. I support the promotion of the Irish language in Northern Ireland. All Irishmen ought to learn the Irish language. It's true, that the Kingdom of Ireland was abolished in 1800, but Northern Ireland ought to consider itself a successor of the Kingdom of Ireland. Northern Irish unionism ought to embrace Irishness while remaining loyal to the Windsor monarchy. 
Peter

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Reply with quote  #14 
Only a minority in the Republic speaks Irish as a daily language, and a very small minority at that. Since the Republic does not force Irish down its citizens' throats, or rather out of their throats, I don't see why Northern Ireland should be expected to. While I support recognition of local languages and encouragement of their use and continued survival, I do not support language fascism of the kind seen in Quebec, still less the far worse variety practiced in the Russian Empire for example or today in China. And without that, people simply are not going to learn languages that are of no practical use to anyone except locally, and not even necessary there since everyone that speaks the local language also speaks whatever language is in general use in the country.

The Free State was a very hostile environment for Protestants, which is why the majority of them packed up and left. It is true today that Protestants enjoy the same rights as Catholics in the Republic. And just as true that Catholics enjoy the same rights as Protestants in the province. It is ironic that today the Republic appears, and in fact is, modern, secular and liberal while Northern Ireland remains gripped by arbitrary morality based on religious diktat, when for so long it was the other way round. This is not going to be a sustainable position and sooner or later the DUP's hold on the province will loosen, perhaps even by sufficient of the Protestant majority deciding that joining the Republic would be better than things as they are. So long as whatever happens happens peacefully and by consent, I wouldn't oppose it. But whatever else does happen, one thing that won't is Irish becoming the daily language throughout the island. It is a pointless pipe dream even to wish for it. And a bit of an insult to the many great Irish writers in English, who are every bit as much part of Ireland's cultural heritage as any Erse survivals might be.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Only a minority in the Republic speaks Irish as a daily language, and a very small minority at that. Since the Republic does not force Irish down its citizens' throats, or rather out of their throats, I don't see why Northern Ireland should be expected to. While I support recognition of local languages and encouragement of their use and continued survival, I do not support language fascism of the kind seen in Quebec, still less the far worse variety practiced in the Russian Empire for example or today in China. And without that, people simply are not going to learn languages that are of no practical use to anyone except locally, and not even necessary there since everyone that speaks the local language also speaks whatever language is in general use in the country.

The Free State was a very hostile environment for Protestants, which is why the majority of them packed up and left. It is true today that Protestants enjoy the same rights as Catholics in the Republic. And just as true that Catholics enjoy the same rights as Protestants in the province. It is ironic that today the Republic appears, and in fact is, modern, secular and liberal while Northern Ireland remains gripped by arbitrary morality based on religious diktat, when for so long it was the other way round. This is not going to be a sustainable position and sooner or later the DUP's hold on the province will loosen, perhaps even by sufficient of the Protestant majority deciding that joining the Republic would be better than things as they are. So long as whatever happens happens peacefully and by consent, I wouldn't oppose it. But whatever else does happen, one thing that won't is Irish becoming the daily language throughout the island. It is a pointless pipe dream even to wish for it. And a bit of an insult to the many great Irish writers in English, who are every bit as much part of Ireland's cultural heritage as any Erse survivals might be.

I don't support forcing people in Northern Ireland to speak Irish. I have never claimed, that the English language isn't part of the cultural heritage of Ireland. But I support making the Irish language a compulsory subject in school in Northern Ireland.
Anti-British Irish nationalism doesn't make sense today. The peoples of the British Isles have far more in common with each other than with continental Europe. The Republic of Ireland ought to leave the EU and rejoin the Commonwealth. 

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