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bator

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi
When I claim, that Estonia is founded as a republic, I mean, that Estonia never has been a monarchy as an independent state. If a country never has been a monarchy as an independent state, making it a monarchy makes no sense to me.
If Estonia shall be a monarchy, the King of Estonia ought to belong to the royal dynasty of a country, which has ruled the country previously. The King of Estonia must be either a Glücksburg (the royal dynasty of Denmark), a Bernadotte (the royal dynasty of Sweden) or a Romanov (the imperial dynasty of Russia). Which of the countries, which have ruled Estonia previously, do the Estonians prefer?


im quite sure estonians would see russians as the worst choice. i think it should not be bernadotte as that dynasty never ruled estonia, but descendents of the previous swedish dynasties it it should be swedish dynasties.

actually estonia also had its own duke, who was not king of denmark. 
azadi

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Reply with quote  #32 
If Estonia shall be a monarchy, I will propose a Danish prince being elected King of Estonia, because the coat of arms of Estonia includes three lions, and the coat of arms of Denmark also includes three lions. The presence of three lions on the coat of arms of Estonia indicates, that the Estonians cherish their historical ties to Denmark.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #33 
Why I don't support the establishment of a Greater Kurdistan:

#1: I fear, that PKK, which is a Communist movement, will take power in a Greater Kurdistan, because PKK enjoys widespread support among Turkish Kurds, and Turkish Kurds are more numerous than South (Iraqi) Kurds. I prefer a non-Communist Kurdish state, which is limited to South (Iraqi) Kurdistan, to a Communist Greater Kurdistan.
#2: I don't support Kurdish secession from Iran, because the Persians are a fellow Iranic people, and Iran has never oppressed the Kurds, unlike Iraq, Syria and Turkey. I'm a Pan-Iranist, who supports close ties between Kurdistan and Iran. I dislike the current Iranian regime, but I want Kurdistan to be an ally of Iran, if the Pahlavi monarchy is restored in Iran.
#3: I don't support South (Iraqi) Kurdistan annexing the Kurdish regions of Syria, because it will jeopardize our friendly relations with Russia. Friendly relations with Russia is very important to Kurdistan, because Russia supported the Kurdish independence referendum in 2017, while USA opposed it, and Russia is currently protecting the Syrian Kurds from Turkish ethnic cleansing. I support Kurdish being made an official language of Syria, but I'm opposed to Kurdish autonomy in Syria, because PYD, the Syrian branch of PKK, currently controls the Kurdish regions of Syria.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #34 
I want Eupen and Sankt Vith, which are German-speaking regions of Belgium, to join Germany. Eupen and Sankt Vith were parts of Germany before World War I. I support the Oder-Neisse line remaining the eastern border of Germany, because the Oder-Neisse line being the eastern border of Germany is a fair punishment for the crimes of Nazi Germany. Thatcher opposing the reunification of Germany was unreasonable, because Germany had been sufficiently punished for the crimes of Nazi Germany by the Oder-Neisse line becoming the eastern border of Germany. Germany had to recognize the Oder-Neisse line as the eastern border of Germany in exchange for Russia accepting the reunification of Germany.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #35 
Actually, Germany had to accept that its future territory would be that of the BDR, DDR and Berlin combined; i.e. no territorial claims whatsoever to be made against any other country. See the penultimate paragraph in the link, and especially the final sentence of that paragraph. So kindly leave Belgium alone.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Actually, Germany had to accept that its future territory would be that of the BDR, DDR and Berlin combined; i.e. no territorial claims whatsoever to be made against any other country. See the penultimate paragraph in the link, and especially the final sentence of that paragraph. So kindly leave Belgium alone.

InVinoVeritas want to make Saint Petersburg part of Finland. Do you consider Finland annexing the capital of the Tsars acceptable? It's unacceptable to me. But I accept Finland annexing the part of Karelia, which Finland lost to Russia in 1940, in this game, despite not supporting it in real life due to the majority of the current population of the region being ethnic Russians. Finland has a stronger historical claim to the part of Karelia, which Finland lost in 1940, than Russia has.
I want Russia to keep Crimea, but Russia ought to return Donetsk and Lugansk to Ukraine. Donetsk and Lugansk have always been parts of Ukraine, unlike Crimea. Russia ought to return the South Kuril Islands to Japan. South Ossetia ought to join Russia, because the majority of the South Ossetians want to join Russia. I support the right to national self-determination of the Ossetians, who are a fellow Iranic people. Georgian oppression of the Ossetians is unacceptable to me.
I want Eupen and Sankt Vith to rejoin Germany, because Eupen and Sankt Vith are the last remaining majority German-speaking regions outside the current territory of the Federal Republic of Germany, which were parts of the Second German Reich. The Germans are no less entitled to national self-determination than the Irishmen are. I also want South Tirol to rejoin Austria.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #37 
My point was that it is legally impossible for these regions to join Germany. My further point, which you have previously acknowledged, is that there is no indication of any desire on the part of the inhabitants of Eupen and Sankt Vith to rejoin Germany. So what price self-determination in your ideal Europe? The scenario in which Finland would either conquer or have ceded to it major areas of Russia, Norway and Sweden plus the entire country of Estonia is somewhat hard to imagine. I therefore see no reason to comment on the merits or otherwise of Vino's proposals. I do accept, as I think most people would, that the Soviet seizure of parts of Karelia and other Finnish territories was unjust and wrong. However, I see no practicable way of remedying the injustice even if Russia were agreeable. Which it never would be.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
My point was that it is legally impossible for these regions to join Germany. My further point, which you have previously acknowledged, is that there is no indication of any desire on the part of the inhabitants of Eupen and Sankt Vith to rejoin Germany. So what price self-determination in your ideal Europe? The scenario in which Finland would either conquer or have ceded to it major areas of Russia, Norway and Sweden plus the entire country of Estonia is somewhat hard to imagine. I therefore see no reason to comment on the merits or otherwise of Vino's proposals. I do accept, as I think most people would, that the Soviet seizure of parts of Karelia and other Finnish territories was unjust and wrong. However, I see no practicable way of remedying the injustice even if Russia were agreeable. Which it never would be.

Eupen and Sankt Vith ought to remain parts of Belgium, as long as the majority of the population of those regions support continued Belgian rule of Eupen and Sankt Vith. But if the majority of the population of Eupen and Sankt Vith changes their mind in the future, I will support Eupen and Sankt Vith rejoining Germany.
Matthew J Taylor requested a third party stating an opinion on the Finnish question. What is your opinion on the Finnish question for the purpose of this game?

Peter

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Reply with quote  #39 
He didn't say the third party had to be me, though. I'll think about it, but I doubt I will comment.
bator

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi
If Estonia shall be a monarchy, I will propose a Danish prince being elected King of Estonia, because the coat of arms of Estonia includes three lions, and the coat of arms of Denmark also includes three lions. The presence of three lions on the coat of arms of Estonia indicates, that the Estonians cherish their historical ties to Denmark.


yes the three lions of both tallinn and estonia are derived from the danish lions. and our flag fell from the sky in estonia. and before the euro was forced upon the estonians as opinion polls showed, their currency was also crown like in scandinavian countries and iceland. + suggestions to make the estonian flag a cross flag like other nordic countries,

and our royal family was the first one to have the titles of dukes of estonia. so i agree totally. 
MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bator


im quite sure estonians would see russians as the worst choice. i think it should not be bernadotte as that dynasty never ruled estonia, but descendents of the previous swedish dynasties it it should be swedish dynasties.

actually estonia also had its own duke, who was not king of denmark. 


Who is the current ducal heir?
Surely he could be sovereign of an independent Duchy of Estonia?

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Windemere

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bator


im quite sure estonians would see russians as the worst choice. i think it should not be bernadotte as that dynasty never ruled estonia, but descendents of the previous swedish dynasties it it should be swedish dynasties.

actually estonia also had its own duke, who was not king of denmark. 


I wonder, though, if the Bernadottes might not be the genealogical heirs of the previous Swedish dynasties, as they now carry both Holstein-Gottorp and Vasa bloodlines. (And remember, the present-day Romanovs are also male-line Holstein-Gottorps).


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Peter

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Reply with quote  #43 
The present King of Sweden is genealogical heir of all the Swedish monarchs from Adolf Fredrik on. However, the last King of Sweden to rule Estonia was Karl XII. His genealogical heir is Prince Andrey of Russia. I don't believe anyone at all has a hereditary claim to rule Estonia, I just mention this for information. The last Danish monarch to rule Estonia was I believe Christopher II, though 'rule' is largely a misnomer for his almost entirely nominal reign. I would not care to attempt determining who his genealogical heir might be; an answer would be possible, but by no means a confident one. The last monarch to rule Estonia was of course Nicholas II. I doubt there will be another one, though naturally I would welcome it if the Estonian people were ever to make such a decision; the choice of whom being of course entirely up to them.

On Finland's borders, I will after all give a view. My proposal is that, in the ideal world of the game, Finland should once again enjoy the borders established by the 1920 Treaty of Tartu, with the addition of the territories claimed by the Republic of North Ingria. If Matthew accepts this suggestion the game can proceed, though obviously it would be nice if Vino also agreed.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The present King of Sweden is genealogical heir of all the Swedish monarchs from Adolf Fredrik on. However, the last King of Sweden to rule Estonia was Karl XII. His genealogical heir is Prince Andrey of Russia. I don't believe anyone at all has a hereditary claim to rule Estonia, I just mention this for information. The last Danish monarch to rule Estonia was I believe Christopher II, though 'rule' is largely a misnomer for his almost entirely nominal reign. I would not care to attempt determining who his genealogical heir might be; an answer would be possible, but by no means a confident one. The last monarch to rule Estonia was of course Nicholas II. I doubt there will be another one, though naturally I would welcome it if the Estonian people were ever to make such a decision; the choice of whom being of course entirely up to them.

On Finland's borders, I will after all give a view. My proposal is that, in the ideal world of the game, Finland should once again enjoy the borders established by the 1920 Treaty of Tartu, with the addition of the territories claimed by the Republic of North Ingria. If Matthew accepts this suggestion the game can proceed, though obviously it would be nice if Vino also agreed.

Your proposal on Finland's borders is acceptable to me, because Saint Petersburg will stay part of Russia according to your proposal.
InVinoVeritas

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The present King of Sweden is genealogical heir of all the Swedish monarchs from Adolf Fredrik on. However, the last King of Sweden to rule Estonia was Karl XII. His genealogical heir is Prince Andrey of Russia. I don't believe anyone at all has a hereditary claim to rule Estonia, I just mention this for information. The last Danish monarch to rule Estonia was I believe Christopher II, though 'rule' is largely a misnomer for his almost entirely nominal reign. I would not care to attempt determining who his genealogical heir might be; an answer would be possible, but by no means a confident one. The last monarch to rule Estonia was of course Nicholas II. I doubt there will be another one, though naturally I would welcome it if the Estonian people were ever to make such a decision; the choice of whom being of course entirely up to them.

On Finland's borders, I will after all give a view. My proposal is that, in the ideal world of the game, Finland should once again enjoy the borders established by the 1920 Treaty of Tartu, with the addition of the territories claimed by the Republic of North Ingria. If Matthew accepts this suggestion the game can proceed, though obviously it would be nice if Vino also agreed.


I guess that's fair. Of all the Finnic peoples of Russia, the Ingrians are probably the closest to us, culturally speaking.

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