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MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #1 
I wondered if it would be a fun game for the forum to work to develop "ideal" borders of the world.
Any proposal that receives more positive reception to negative reception (judged by me) will be added to the map.
I can keep the image running.
Until someone can propose a good alternative, I will use this wikipedia image of the top-level divisions of current states as the template:
Blank.png  For an example, I'm combining the UK and Ireland into a single state. Therefore the map would become:
19.11.04 1.png  1) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

Anyone want to play along?





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azadi

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South (Iraqi) Kurdistan must become an independent state. Independent Kurdistan must respect the territorial integrity of Turkey, Syria and Iran.


MatthewJTaylor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi
South (Iraqi) Kurdistan must become an independent state. Independent Kurdistan must respect the territorial integrity of Turkey, Syria and Iran.
Crimea must remain part of Russia. Donetsk and Lugansk must be returned to Ukraine.
The South Kuril Islands must become part of Japan.
South Ossetia must become part of Russia.
North Kosovo must be returned to Serbia. The rest of Kosovo must become part of Albania.
Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh) must become part of Armenia.
Moldova must become part of Romania. Transnistria must become part of Ukraine. 
Gibraltar must become part of Spain.
Akrotiri and Dhekelia must become parts of the Republic of Cyprus.
The Chagos Islands must become part of Mauritius.
Eupen and Sankt Vith must become parts of Germany.
South Tirol must become part of Austria.
Tibet and Uyghurstan must become independent.
Aksai Chin must become part of India. 
West Papua must become part of Papua New Guinea.
Western Sahara must become an autonomous region of Morocco.
East Jerusalem must remain part of Israel.


For now, I'll add in the independent South Kurdistan.
I think we should do it one claim at a time before it gets crazy.

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MatthewJTaylor

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19.11.05 2.png 1) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
2) Iranic Kingdom of South Kurdistan


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InVinoVeritas

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Greater Finland. I'll be a bit modest and propose it should only include Estonia, Ingria, Eastern Karelia, Kola Peninsula, Finland, Norrbotten and Finnmark.
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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
Greater Finland. I'll be a bit modest and propose it should only include Estonia, Ingria, Eastern Karelia, Kola Peninsula, Finland, Norrbotten and Finnmark.

That's still excessive. Finland annexing Saint Petersburg is a very bad idea. Finland regaining the territories, which Finland lost to Russia in the Winter War is a reasonable proposal for a Greater Finland. 
InVinoVeritas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

That's still excessive. Finland annexing Saint Petersburg is a very bad idea. Finland regaining the territories, which Finland lost to Russia in the Winter War is a reasonable proposal for a Greater Finland. 


I disagree. There's no "Greater" in the Finland you propose. We have too many martyrs for us to forget our dreams.


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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas


I disagree. There's no "Greater" in the Finland you propose. We have too many martyrs for us to forget our dreams.


We Kurds have a lot of martyrs too, but I'm merely proposing an independent South (Iraqi) Kurdistan rather than a Greater Kurdistan. Depriving Russia of the capital of the Tsars is an unacceptable injustice to Russia, but Finland regaining the lost territory of the Grand Duchy of Finland and the interwar Republic of Finland is fair.
InVinoVeritas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

We Kurds have a lot of martyrs too, but I'm merely proposing an independent South (Iraqi) Kurdistan rather than a Greater Kurdistan. Depriving Russia of the capital of the Tsars is an unacceptable injustice to Russia, but Finland regaining the lost territory of the Grand Duchy of Finland and the interwar Republic of Finland is fair.


An unacceptable injustice to Russia? The fact that our kindred peoples have been oppressed by Russia for so long is an unacceptable injustice to me.

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azadi

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor
I wondered if it would be a fun game for the forum to work to develop "ideal" borders of the world.
Any proposal that receives more positive reception to negative reception (judged by me) will be added to the map.
I can keep the image running.
Until someone can propose a good alternative, I will use this wikipedia image of the top-level divisions of current states as the template:
Blank.png  For an example, I'm combining the UK and Ireland into a single state. Therefore the map would become:
19.11.04 1.png  1) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

Anyone want to play along?




Is the current borders for the purpose of your game the current de facto borders, or the borders, which are supported by the majority of the international community?

MatthewJTaylor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Is the current borders for the purpose of your game the current de facto borders, or the borders, which are supported by the majority of the international community?



Other than the coloured in ones, it's the de Facto borders.
So far the only differences are a united british isles and an independent south Kurdistan
I am unable to update the map as I am away from my computer.
The question of Finland will need to be settled by a third party to voice either support or condemnation.

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Windemere

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windemere
Thanks for the previous posts. I'm replying to Azadi's suggestions in Post #3 in this thread. Some of these sound like reasonable propositions, while others are more dubious.

I'm especially referring to the status of the Aksai Chin, which is a barren, 14,000 sq.mile border  area located between western China and western India. It's evidently surrounded by mountains.  Prior to the 1960s, this was an uninhabited, desolate area of salt and soda plains, which was occasionally crossed by nomadic traders and herdsmen passing between Tibet and Kashmir. China's new communist government inherited the vague Tibetan claim to it, while recently-independent India inherited the equally vague Kashmiri claim. Neither nation, at that time, had any vital concerns about the area, whose borders had never been demarcated. Nor did either nation pay much attention to it.  Chinese maps showed the Aksai Chin as Chinese territory, while Indian maps (which they'd inherited from Britain) showed it as Indian territory.

However, sometime in the late 1950s, China built a road across the Aksai Chin to connect the western edges of its provinces of Tibet and Sinkiang, and stationed some detachments of troops there to protect the road.  A couple of years later,  India became aware of the existence  of the road, and of the Chinese troops stationed there. India, newly independent and experiencing border disputes with newly-independent Pakistan, was obsessive about maintaining and protecting her borders. India therefore (in 1962) instituted a 'forward policy', sending her troops into the Aksai Chin to confront the Chinese troops. Somehow, at some point, some of the opposing troops began firing at each other. And so the 1962 Sino-Indian border war began. The war also involved the far-off eastern area of Arunachal Pradesh. Like the Aksai Chin, the borders of Arunachal Pradesh had never been clearly demarcated. Unlike Aksai Chin, Arunachal Pradesh was an inhabited area where tribal peoples lived.  Tibet had traditionally exercised a loose authority over an area called the Tawang tract in Arunachal Pradesh which contained a Buddhist gompa (monastery), which came under the Dalai Lama's jurisdiction. Britain likewise had established a loose jurisdiction over most of Arunachal Pradesh, which was passed on to India. Both India and China claimed the area. 

The war was a limited one, and was won by China, which sent troops into Arunachal Pradesh and occupied most of it, having previously occupied Aksai Chin. However, China soon declared a ceasefire, and withdrew her troops from Arunachal Pradesh, while remaining in possession of the Aksai Chin. Several years later, both China and India signed agreements accepting the status quo, with China in possession of Aksai Chin, and India in possession of Arunachal Pradesh. Although neither nation relinquished their formal claims to either territory. That has been the situation ever since. China has apparently established some some small villages in the Aksai Chin for the laborers who maintain the road, and keeps some military detachments there. The area has been mostly quiet ever since the war ended in 1962. At some point later on, India raised Arunachal Pradesh to the status of a province. 

 If one looks at a map, the Aksai Chin does fulfill the function of connecting the Chinese provinces of Sinkiang and Tibet, and the road therefore serves a useful purpose. From the Indian perspective, the Aksai Chin is a remote northwestern area that juts off into China, and doesn't lead anywhere, or  seem to have any purpose. And so I don't see anything to be gained from putting forward another Indian claim to the area, or upsetting the status quo as it presently exists.



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Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #13 
Ideally, I think China should lose Tibet and Xinjiang or East Turkestan, as well as Hong Kong (if its people so choose). If you read what China has doing in East Turkestan in particular, it most resembles something like the Nazi or Stalin regime:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/11/facing-uyghur-question-horror-in-china/
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #14 
A slow-motion cultural genocide is happening in China. The CCP destroyed Chinese civilisation, and are doing the same to Tibet, Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia.

Both China and Iran are ancient nations, ruled by regimes which rejected their civilisation.
bator

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas


An unacceptable injustice to Russia? The fact that our kindred peoples have been oppressed by Russia for so long is an unacceptable injustice to me.


i think estonia should be a kingdom of its own, and have back petserimaa and also let the border follow the river south of peipsi järv, but definitely karelia and ingria should be liberated. the present border between finland and russia is very artificial.
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