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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #31 
Oh, absolutely, though as Communism eventually fell in Russia and the Balkans it presumably would not have lasted in Spain either--thousands of deaths and decades of misery later.  But I find it intolerably depressing that despite the fall of Communism more than 20 years ago now, not one of the Balkan monarchies has been restored.  That is why I think we have to be grudgingly grateful to Franco, flawed though he was.  Not that I've been feeling particularly confident about the future of the modern Spanish monarchy (at least in Catalonia) lately.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #32 
If anything, Catalonia should have less incentive to ever separate from Spain- the seats they have in the Cortes proves ever vital and you would think they would like that sort of thing. There is little doubt that Franco can be respected for saving the world, arguably, from that potentially ghastly fate but his admirers too often overlook his flaws- his suppression of Basque and Catalan identities went against Carlism and the very Catholic teachings it upheld.

As for the client states, not all of them were headed by Bonaparte family members. Etruria, for instance, was given to House of Bourbon-Parma. Ferdinand III of Tuscany was given Salzburg and then Würzburg. The Duchy of Warsaw was headed by the King of Saxony, who I believe was expected to take the Polish throne had 1795 not happened. I agree, virtually all of those client states can be classed as illegitimate. Leyen was made a principality under the House of Leyen, which was later mediatised and the line continues today.

From that era, everyone forgets the short-lived Kingdom of Corsica (1793-96) with George III as its King.
KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #33 
Actually, Catalonia has plenty of incentive to separate from Spain, since their paying Spain more than Spain pays them. Clearly, austerity isn't helping Iberian monarchism. Maybe all debts everywhere should be canceled. This is what Urukagina of Lagash would have done.
18th_Brumaire

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
Oh, absolutely, though as Communism eventually fell in Russia and the Balkans it presumably would not have lasted in Spain either--thousands of deaths and decades of misery later.  But I find it intolerably depressing that despite the fall of Communism more than 20 years ago now, not one of the Balkan monarchies has been restored.  That is why I think we have to be grudgingly grateful to Franco, flawed though he was.  Not that I've been feeling particularly confident about the future of the modern Spanish monarchy (at least in Catalonia) lately.


I actually agree with you, strange as it might sound.

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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
If anything, Catalonia should have less incentive to ever separate from Spain- the seats they have in the Cortes proves ever vital and you would think they would like that sort of thing.


Quote:
Actually, Catalonia has plenty of incentive to separate from Spain, since their paying Spain more than Spain pays them. Clearly, austerity isn't helping Iberian monarchism.


The Catalans, the Basques, the Scots, the Flemish etc should really think good and hard about what they are really asking for.  None of these people will be better off breaking away and forming their own countries.  They may be fed up with the incompetence of their politicians, but they will only be trading them in for a new set of incompetents, with the only difference being that they will be poorer and smaller than they were.  Loosen the fiscal and monetary ties to the EU rather than the political and loyalty ties to your Kings and their Kingdoms.

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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #36 
They need independence not from Spain, Belgium or Britain, but independence from the big government ethos and all it entrails (and which the EU invariably encourages).
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