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AaronTraas

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor
I wish them all the luck in gaining it.
However, now of this has any connection to the moral/political question of genuine nobility and the noblesse oblige


I'm giving up on arguing with him. He's just saying what is, not why what is is best. 
bator

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor
As monarchists, we think about monarchies and our monarchs quite a lot.
However, would this be the case in our "ideal worlds"?

In my view for a future-traditional Britain, day to day life would exist near exclusively in the local sphere - parish, town and county being the normal fields of view. I'm quite agrarian in sympathies, so most of the people would be farming estates.
As such, I suspect these subjects would think far more about their local lords and clan chiefs than they would their national or multi-national monarchs.

The monarch would be a focus in:
Times of War, as the highest millitary leader
Times of National Celebration, as the highest national symbol
Times of Political Activity, as the highest political authority (I wouldn't have a continuously sitting parliament, we could all do with a break from politics)
Prayers for leaders, as the highest earthly leader
Accession to Offices, as the object of the Oath of Allegiance

Whilst these times would not be excessively rare, they would not be omnipresent. As such, my ideal compatriots, as a monarchist, would not in fact think that much about monarchy, it would simply be a baseline assumption in the background most of the time.

Does anyone here markedly disagree?.


at least i dont disagree.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #18 
Advocating the restoration of privileges of nobility in former monarchies will do immense harm to monarchism. Most people don't want to restore feudalism. I personally prefer democracy and a mixture of socialism and capitalism to feudalism, but even if you personally prefer feudalism to democracy, you ought to accept, that the vast majority of Europeans will never accept restoration of privileges of nobility. In former monarchies, the only viable form of monarchism is advocating the establishment of a democratic constitutional monarchy. People, who are otherwise opposed to hereditary privileges, might support a hereditary constitutional monarchy, because a king is a unifying national symbol, who is above partisan politics and who embodies the history and traditions of his nation.
AaronTraas claimed, that nobility is pointless without it having privileges or obligations. But the Austrian nobles, who are fighting for official recognition, disagree. They are not fighting for any privileges. They are merely fighting for official recognition of their nobiliary particles. A democratic state ought to honour the legacy of the ancient noble families by recognizing their titles. Depriving the ancient noble families of their titles is petty. 
InVinoVeritas

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi
Advocating the restoration of privileges of nobility in former monarchies will do immense harm to monarchism. Most people don't want to restore feudalism. I personally prefer democracy and a mixture of socialism and capitalism to feudalism, but even if you personally prefer feudalism to democracy, you ought to accept, that the vast majority of Europeans will never accept restoration of privileges of nobility. In former monarchies, the only viable form of monarchism is advocating the establishment of a democratic constitutional monarchy. People, who are otherwise opposed to hereditary privileges, might support a hereditary constitutional monarchy, because a king is a unifying national symbol, who is above partisan politics and who embodies the history and traditions of his nation.
AaronTraas claimed, that nobility is pointless without it having privileges or obligations. But the Austrian nobles, who are fighting for official recognition, disagree. They are not fighting for any privileges. They are merely fighting for official recognition of their nobiliary particles. A democratic state ought to honour the legacy of the ancient noble families by recognizing their titles. Depriving the ancient noble families of their titles is petty. 


People will sooner or later be forced to accept the restoration of a more or less rigid hierarchy due to our whole way of life being completely untenable. I don't see why the nobility couldn't have a place in said hierarchy. People don't have to like it, but they must accept it. Pardon me for any possible flaws in my text, I'm once again quite tired.

__________________
"Democratic governments are not suited to the publication of the thunderous revelations I am in the habit of making. The unpublished parts will appear later … when Europe will have restored its traditional monarchies." -Salvador Dalí, Diary of a Genius (1964)
azadi

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas


People will sooner or later be forced to accept the restoration of a more or less rigid hierarchy due to our whole way of life being completely untenable. I don't see why the nobility couldn't have a place in said hierarchy. People don't have to like it, but they must accept it. Pardon me for any possible flaws in my text, I'm once again quite tired.

The democratic constitutional monarchies of continental Europe function well, despite having abolished privileges of nobility. 
I don't support equality of outcome. A professor, a judge or an army officer earning far higher wages than an unskilled worker does is fair. Communism is wrong, because it's at odds with human nature. Abolishing private property and wage differences is utopian and will inevitably lead to totalitarianism. I'm sick and tired of leftists condemning inequality, because inequality is necessary in order to fuel competition.
But I support strong social safety nets in order to alleviate poverty, and I support tuition-free university education in order to enable academically talented children of poor parents to rise to the top of society. 

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