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Windemere

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks, Murtagon,  for this interesting discussion on the agnatic lines of the Wittelsbachs, Wettins, Hohenzollerns, and Savoyards.  When time permits, I'll add some commentary to the Wittelsbach section.

But first a question for Peter......I'd always considered the Franks and the Saxons to be somewhat distinct from each other. The Capetians had a Frankish origin, but I'd always thought that the Wettins had a Saxon one. Or do they actually both have a Frankish one ?  Or is it that the distinction between Franks and Saxons perhaps actually isn't genetically significant, especially among the nobility ?  Thanks for any further insight on this that may be available.

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Peter

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Reply with quote  #17 
The origins of Theodoric I, the earliest documented Wettin ancestor, are much speculated on. As the link shows, he has been suggested to have come from several different noble lines. But all, like the Franks, were of Germanic and therefore similar roots. 'Frankish' was a careless expression, but I think the point remains.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #18 
Dynasty №8: House of Württemberg

Originally known as a comital House from the late 11th century, this family gained the title of Duke in 1495. The descent here begins with the first person whose main line still exists.

It's worth mentioning that Württemberg was briefly an Electorate from 1803 to 1806, all thanks to Napoleon Bonaparte. It was then a Kingdom until late 1918.

I. House of Württemberg:
  1. Frederick I, Duke of Württemberg (1557 - 1608), father of...
  2. John Frederick, Duke of Württemberg (1582 - 1628), father of...
  3. Eberhard III, Duke of Württemberg (1614 - 1674), father of...
  4. William Louis, Duke of Württemberg (1647 - 1677), father of...
  5. Eberhard Louis, Duke of Württemberg (1676 - 1733), first cousin of...

II. House of Württemberg-Winnental [Descended from Eberhard III, Duke of Württemberg, through his son, Frederick Charles, Duke of Württemberg-Winnental]:
  1. Charles Alexander, Duke of Württemberg (1684 - 1737), father of...
  2. Charles Eugene, Duke of Württemberg (1728 - 1793), brother of...
  3. Louis Eugene, Duke of Württemberg (1731 - 1795), brother of...
  4. Frederick II Eugene, Duke of Württemberg (1732 - 1797), father of...
  5. Frederick I of Württemberg (1754 - 1816), father of...
  6. William I of Württemberg (1781 - 1864), father of...
  7. Charles I of Württemberg (1823 - 1891), first cousin once removed of...

III. House of Württemberg (Junior branch) [Descended from Frederick I of Württemberg through his son, Prince Paul of Württemberg]:
  1. William II of Württemberg (1848 - 1921), third cousin of...

IV. House of Teck [Descended from Frederick II Eugene, Duke of Württemberg, through his son, Duke Louis of Württemberg]:
  1. Adolphus Cambridge, 1st Marquess of Cambridge (1868 - 1927), father of...
  2. George Cambridge, 2nd Marquess of Cambridge (1895 - 1981), third cousin once removed of...

V. House of Urach [Descended from Frederick II Eugene, Duke of Württemberg, through his son, Duke William Frederick Philip of Württemberg]:
  1. Karl Gero, Duke of Urach (1899 - 1981), uncle of...
  2. Karl Anselm, Duke of Urach (b. 1955).
Of course, the marriage between Duke Alexander of Württemberg (1804–1885) and Countess Claudine Rhédey von Kis-Rhéde (1812 - 1841) was morganatic. As such, their male line was bypassed for the purposes of the royal succession. The change from Teck to Cambridge didn't change matters much in this case.
Similarly, the marriage between Duke William Frederick Philip of Württemberg (1761 - 1830) and Wilhelmine Freiin von Tunderfeld-Rhodis (1777–1822) was also non-dynastic. Because of this, the Dukes of Urach are not considered the proper heirs either.
In other words, when he died in 1921, the last King was succeeded by his other third cousin...

IV (Real). House of Württemberg (Ducal branch) [Descended from Frederick II Eugene, Duke of Württemberg, through his son, Duke Alexander of Württemberg]:
  1. Albrecht, Duke of Württemberg (1865 - 1939), father of...
  2. Philipp Albrecht, Duke of Württemberg (1893 - 1975), father of...
  3. Duke Ludwig Albrecht of Württemberg (1930 - 2019), father of...
  4. Duke Christoph of Württemberg (b. 1960).
As IV (Real) - 3 appears to have had renounced his rights, the actual succession went in the following manner:
  1. Philipp Albrecht, Duke of Württemberg (1893 - 1975), father of...
  2. Carl, Duke of Württemberg (b. 1936).
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IV-A. House of Teck:
  1. Duke Louis of Württemberg (1756 - 1817), father of...
  2. Duke Adam of Württemberg (1792 - 1847), half-brother of...
  3. Duke Alexander of Württemberg (1804–1885), father of...
  4. Francis, Duke of Teck (1837 - 1900), father of...
  5. Adolphus Cambridge, 1st Marquess of Cambridge (1868 - 1927), same as IV-1.
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V-A. House of Urach:
  1. Duke William Frederick Philip of Württemberg (1761 - 1830), father of...
  2. Alexander of Württemberg (1801–1844), father of...
  3. Eberhard, Graf von Württemberg (1833 - 1896), first cousin of...
V-B. House of Urach (Ducal branch) [Descended from Duke William Frederick Philip of Württemberg, through his son, Wilhelm, Duke of Urach]:
  1. Wilhelm Karl, Duke of Urach (1864 - 1928), father of...
  2. Wilhelm von Urach (1897 - 1957), brother of...
  3. Karl Gero, Duke of Urach (1899 - 1981), same as V-1.
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Fun fact: Queen Elizabeth II is related to Vlad the Impaler due to her descent from Countess Claudine Rhédey von Kis-Rhéde. 

Slightly off-topic: Thanks to Windemere and Peter for the discussion about the origin of the Wettins and the Capetians. In my opinion, almost all German noble families should be closely related (agnatically). The House of Mecklenburg is probably a big exception. The Hohenzollerns may also be more distantly related, but it hasn't been proven with certainty.

As for the long Brandenburger male line: how impressive that it lasted for exactly three centuries (1486 to 1786).
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #19 
Dynasty №9: House of Baden

Also known as the House of Zähringen, this family has existed since the 11th century. This descent is about the senior line, which originally ruled the Margraviate of Baden, which was briefly an Electorate from 1803 to 1806, at which point it became a Grand Duchy. The monarchy was abolished in late 1918.

I. House of Baden:
  1. Herman II, Margrave of Baden (c. 1060 - 1130), father of...
  2. Herman III, Margrave of Baden (c. 1105 - 1160), father of...
  3. Herman IV, Margrave of Baden (1135 - 1190), father of...
  4. Herman V, Margrave of Baden-Baden (c. 1180 - 1243), father of...
  5. Herman VI, Margrave of Baden (c. 1226 - 1250), father of...
  6. Frederick I, Margrave of Baden (1249 - 1268), nephew of...
  7. Rudolf I, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1230 - 1288), father of...
  8. Herman VII, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1266 - 1291), father of...
  9. Frederick II, Margrave of Baden-Eberstein (? - 1333), father of...
  10. Herman IX, Margrave of Baden-Eberstein (? - 1353), first cousin of...

II. House of Baden - Baden [Descended from Herman VII, Margrave of Baden-Baden, through his son, Rudolf IV, Margrave of Baden-Pforzheim]:
  1. Frederick III, Margrave of Baden (1327 - 1353), father of...
  2. Rudolf VI, Margrave of Baden (? - 1372), father of...
  3. Bernard I, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1364 - 1431), father of...
  4. Jacob, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1407 - 1453), father of...
  5. Charles I, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1427 - 1475), father of...
  6. Christoph I, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1453 - 1527), father of...
  7. Bernhard III, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1474 - 1536), father of...
  8. Philibert, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1536 - 1569), father of...
  9. Philip II, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1559 - 1588), first cousin of...

III. House of Baden - Baden (Junior branch) [Descended from Bernhard III, Margrave of Baden-Baden, through his son, Christopher II, Margrave of Baden-Rodemachern]:
  1. Edward Fortunatus (1565 - 1600), father of...
  2. William, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1593 - 1677), grandfather of...
  3. Louis William, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1655 - 1707), father of...
  4. Louis George, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1702 - 1761), brother of...
  5. Augustus George, Margrave of Baden-Baden (1706 - 1771), sixth cousin twice removed of...

IV. House of Baden - Durlach [Descended from Christoph I, Margrave of Baden-Baden, through his son, Ernest, Margrave of Baden-Durlach]:
  1. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden (1728 - 1811), grandfather of...
  2. Charles, Grand Duke of Baden (1786 - 1818), nephew of...
  3. Louis I, Grand Duke of Baden (1763 - 1830), half-brother of...
  4. Leopold, Grand Duke of Baden (1790 - 1852), father of...
  5. Louis II, Grand Duke of Baden (1824 - 1858), brother of...
  6. Frederick I, Grand Duke of Baden (1826 - 1907), father of...
  7. Frederick II, Grand Duke of Baden (1857 - 1928), first cousin of...

V. House of Baden (Junior branch) [Descended from Leopold, Grand Duke of Baden, through his son, Prince William of Baden]:
  1. Prince Maximilian of Baden (1867 - 1929), father of...
  2. Berthold, Margrave of Baden (1906 - 1963), father of...
  3. Maximilian, Margrave of Baden (b. 1933).
The House of Baden would have gone extinct in 1830, if it hadn't been for the fact that the children from the morganatic second marriage of the very first Grand Duke of Baden were granted dynastic status. This was not without precedent. Charles II, Margrave of Baden-Durlach, had also been born of such a marriage. In fact, the German Wikipedia wryly notes that the House of Baden never had a shortage of male heirs - they just weren't always born of dynastic marriages.
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IV-A. House of Baden-Durlach:
  1. Ernest, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1482 - 1553), father of...
  2. Charles II, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1529 - 1557), father of...
  3. Ernest Frederick, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1560 - 1604), brother of...
  4. Georg Friedrich, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1573 - 1638), father of...
  5. Frederick V, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1594 - 1659), father of...
  6. Frederick VI, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1617 - 1677), father of...
  7. Frederick VII, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1647 - 1709), father of...
  8. Charles III William, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (1679 - 1738), grandfather of...
  9. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden (1728 - 1811), same as IV-1.
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It's worth noting that if I hadn't shown the Margraves, I would have been left with a very short descent. Still, I am slightly amazed that I didn't have to go through any actual morganauts. Impressive.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #20 
III.2 was also born of such a marriage, his father Edward Fortunatus (III.1) having married a Dutch lady of respectable family to be sure, but nowhere near noble enough for her to be an acceptable Margravine. In fact their children never were accepted as dynasts by other Zähringen branches, but that status was gained just the same through the fortunes of war, Edward having converted to Catholicism as a young man and his therefore also Catholic son William being favoured by the Catholic side in the Thirty Years' War, which at that time was ascendant.

III.3 incidentally was among the greatest and most famous generals of the day, eclipsed perhaps only by his cousin Prince Eugene of Savoy. Descent from him survives through the House of Orléans, and is therefore enjoyed by the Kings of Spain and Belgium and the Grand Duke of Luxembourg. Descent from Edward Fortunatus and his unacceptable bride is more widespread, extending I believe to all reigning European monarchs except the two Princes (Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein however is a descendant, and is also eventual heir).
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #21 
Dynasty №10: House of Hesse

Descended from the House of Brabant (and the even earlier Reginarids), this dynasty is one of the last German ones to have a male line dating from before 1000 A.D. 

The descent featured here begins with the very first Landgrave of Hesse from the mid 13th century. The Head of the senior line was promoted to Elector in 1803 and this title remained in use until 1866, when Hesse-Kassel was annexed by the Kingdom of Prussia.

I. House of Hesse:
  1. Henry I, Landgrave of Hesse (1244 - 1308), father of...
  2. Otto I, Landgrave of Hesse (c. 1272 - 1328), father of...
  3. Henry II, Landgrave of Hesse (c. 1299 - 1376), uncle of...
  4. Hermann II, Landgrave of Hesse (1341 - 1413), father of...
  5. Louis I, Landgrave of Hesse (1402 - 1458), father of...
  6. Louis II, Landgrave of Lower Hesse (1438 - 1471), father of...
  7. William I, Landgrave of Lower Hesse (1466 - 1515), uncle of...
  8. Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse (1504 - 1567), father of...
  9. William IV, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1532 - 1592), father of...
  10. Maurice, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1572 - 1632), father of...
  11. William V, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1602 - 1637), father of...
  12. William VI, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1629 - 1663), father of...
  13. William VII, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1651 - 1670), brother of...
  14. Charles I, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1654 - 1730), father of...
  15. Frederick I of Sweden (1676 - 1751), brother of...
  16. William VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1682 - 1760), father of...
  17. Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (1720 - 1785), father of...
  18. William I, Elector of Hesse (1743 - 1821), father of...
  19. William II, Elector of Hesse (1777 - 1847), father of...
  20. Frederick William, Elector of Hesse (1802 - 1875), father of...
  21. Friedrich Wilhelm, Prinz von Hanau und Horowitz (1832 - 1889), father of...
  22. Prince Friedrich von Hanau, Graf von Schaumburg (1864 - 1940), father of...
  23. Heinrich, 5.Fürst von Hanau (1900 - 1971), father of...
  24. Karl Heinrich, 6.Fürst von Hanau (1923 - 1998), father of...
  25. Philipp, Prinz von Hanau (b. 1959).
Of course, the marriage between Frederick William, Elector of Hesse (1802 - 1875) and Gertrude Falkenstein (1803 - 1882) was morganatic. As such, the last Elector was dynastically succeeded by his second cousin...

II. House of Hesse-Kassel [Descended from Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, through his son, Prince Frederick of Hesse-Kassel]:
  1. Prince Frederick William of Hesse-Kassel (1820 - 1884), father of...
  2. Frederick William III of Hesse (1854 - 1888), brother of...
  3. Alexander Frederick, Landgrave of Hesse (1863 - 1945), uncle of...
  4. Philipp, Landgrave of Hesse (1896 - 1980), father of...
  5. Moritz, Landgrave of Hesse (1926 - 2013), father of...
  6. Donatus, Landgrave of Hesse (b. 1966).
There are two things I would like to point out here:
1) I-25 may actually be the nephew of his predecessor - not that important in the grand scheme of things;
2) II-3 had "abdicated" in 1925 in favour of his brother, Prince Frederick Charles of Hesse (1868 - 1940), who was going to be the King of Finland in 1918, but Germany losing WWI put an end to that. 

To Peter: Thanks, I hadn't noticed that there was another morganaut in my descent of the House of Baden. Eduard Fortunatus sounds a bit like an M. R. James character, if you ask me.

TO BE CONTINUED...
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #22 
Dynasty №10: House of Hesse (Part Two)

As the concept of agnatic primogeniture needed some time to get properly ingrained into the succession laws of the various German Houses, almost all of them had several branches.

For instance, when Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse, died in 1567, his territory was split between four of his dynastic sons: Hesse-Kassel, Hesse-Marburg, Hesse-Rheinfels and Hesse-Darmstadt.

This descent is about the most junior of them and begins with his youngest son. 

I. House of Hesse-Darmstadt:
  1. George I, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1547 - 1596), father of...
  2. Louis V, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1577 - 1626), father of...
  3. George II, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1605 - 1661), father of...
  4. Louis VI, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1630 - 1678), father of...
  5. Louis VII, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1658 - 1678), half-brother of...
  6. Ernest Louis, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1667 - 1739), father of...
  7. Louis VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1691 - 1768), father of...
  8. Louis IX, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (1719 - 1790), father of...
  9. Louis I, Grand Duke of Hesse (1753 - 1830), father of...
  10. Louis II, Grand Duke of Hesse (1777 - 1848), father of...
  11. Louis III, Grand Duke of Hesse (1806 - 1877), uncle of...
  12. Louis IV, Grand Duke of Hesse (1837 - 1892), father of...
  13. Ernest Louis, Grand Duke of Hesse (1868 - 1937), father of...
  14. Georg Donatus, Hereditary Grand Duke of Hesse (1906 - 1937), brother of...
  15. Louis, Prince of Hesse and by Rhine (1908 - 1968), third cousin of...

II. House of Mountbatten [Descended from Louis II, Grand Duke of Hesse, through his son, Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine]:
  1. David Mountbatten, 3rd Marquess of Milford Haven (1919 - 1970), father of...
  2. George Mountbatten, 4th Marquess of Milford Haven (b. 1961).
Of course, the marriage between Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine (1823 - 1888) and Julia, Princess of Battenberg, (1825 - 1895) was morganatic. As such, when I-15 died, he was succeeded by Landgrave Moritz (1926 - 2013), whom he had adopted in 1960. 

It appears that the members of the House of Hesse belong to the following Y-DNA haplogroup: R1b-L21 > FGC5494. I think this should be taken with a grain of salt for the following reasons:
1) Brad Michael Little is supposedly an illegitimate descendant of Prince Louis of Battenberg (1854 - 1921) through his maternal grandfather. That's the implication I get - I haven't read his book, so I can't be certain of his findings.
2) It is practically taken for granted that Grand Duke Louis II of Hesse and by Rhine was not the biological father of Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine. Genealogics doesn't even bother with such a relationship between the two: the father is shown as August von Senarclens de Grancy (1794 - 1871). I can certainly see a resemblance.

I may briefly return to the House of Hesse in the future. It's certainly an interesting one.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #23 
Dynasty №2: House of Habsburg-Lorraine (Part Two)

When Duke Francis Stephen of Lorraine gave up his ancestral land in 1737, he received the Grand Duchy of Tuscany in return. It was then decided that the Grand Duke would be selected according to secundogeniture in the House. This meant that when his younger son Leopold had to succeed his elder brother on the Austrian throne (and as Holy Roman Emperor), Tuscany went to Leopold II's second son, with whom this descent begins.

I. House of Habsburg-Lorraine (Tuscan branch):
  1. Ferdinand III, Grand Duke of Tuscany (1769 - 1824), father of...
  2. Leopold II, Grand Duke of Tuscany (1797 - 1870), father of...
  3. Ferdinand IV, Grand Duke of Tuscany (1835 - 1908), father of...
  4. Archduke Leopold Ferdinand of Austria (1868 - 1935), brother of...
  5. Archduke Joseph Ferdinand of Austria (1872 - 1942), father of...
  6. Maximilian Graf von Habsburg-Lothringen (b. 1932).
Of course, the marriage between Archduke Joseph Ferdinand of Austria (1872 - 1942) and Gertrude Tomanek, Edle von Beyerfels-Mondsee (1902 – 1997) was morganatic. Due to this, the real succession went differently...
  1. Archduke Joseph Ferdinand of Austria (1872 - 1942), brother of...
  2. Archduke Peter Ferdinand of Austria (1874 - 1948), father of...
  3. Archduke Gottfried of Austria (1902 - 1984), father of...
  4. Archduke Leopold Franz of Austria (b. 1942).
The last of them has actually "abdicated" due to his morganatic remarriage in 1993. His son Archduke Sigismund is the current pretender.
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On a related note, Ferdinand Karl (1754 - 1806), younger son of Francis Stephen and Maria Theresa, married the heiress of the House of Este in 1771, thus becoming Archduke of Austria-Este. This branch went extinct with his grandson, Francis V, Duke of Modena, who died in 1875 - the latter's niece, Maria Theresa of Austria-Este was actually the last, as she passed away in 1919.

The last Duke of Modena had designated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria (1863 - 1914) to be his successor, as he was not expected to become Emperor of Austria. Franz Ferdinand married morganatically, however, so his issue was bypassed. The titles were joined from 1916 (when his nephew became Emperor) to 1917 (when the Emperor passed it to his second son, Robert, Archduke of Austria-Este). 

The current pretender is Prince Lorenz of Belgium, Archduke of Austria-Este. His children are notably in the Belgian order of succession as grandchildren of King Albert II.
Windemere

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Reply with quote  #24 
Thanks for that interesting survey of the Hapsburg-Lothringen Tuscan and Austria-Este (Modenese) Houses.

Here's a cognatic descent (from Genealogics) for the current Austria-Este heir from the original House of Este:

Duke Ercole III d'Este of Modena, father of:
Maria Beatrice d'Este, mother of:
Maria Theresia of Austria-Este, mother of:
Maria Teresa of Savoia, mother of:
Duke Carlo III of Borbone-Parma, father of:
Duke Roberto of Borbone-Parma, father of:
Princess Zita of Borbone-Parma, mother of:
Archduke Robert of Austria-Este (Modena), mentioned in your post above, father of:
Archduke Lorenz of Austria-Este (Modena) and Prince of Belgium, whose sons and grandson are heirs to Austria-Este, and whose children are also  in the Belgian line of succession.

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Peter

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Reply with quote  #25 
It was Carlo III of Parma who was the father of Roberto. Duke Ferdinando was Carlo III's great-grandfather. Apart from that, perfectly correct, though it is not this lineage that gives rise to the claim to Modena. The claim actually results from the marriage treaty of the 18th-century heiress Maria Beatrice d'Este, who is second in your lineage.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #26 

Dynasty №3: Capetians (Part Two)

This post shows three further agnatic successions for the House of Bourbon. The first two reigned in parts of what is now Italy and the third one is undisputably French.
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The Kingdom of Sicily and the Kingdom of Naples were joined in 1816 as the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. It was meant to be ruled by secundogeniture in the Spanish branch of the House of Bourbon. This meant that when King Ferdinand VII of Spain died without an heir in 1759, he was succeeded by his half-brother, King Charles III of Spain, who was already the monarch in Sicily. The balance of powers required him to leave that territory to a younger son, with whom this descent begins.

I. House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies:

  1. Ferdinand I of the Two Sicilies (1751 - 1825), father of...
  2. Francis I of the Two Sicilies (1777 - 1830), father of...
  3. Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies (1810 - 1859), father of...
  4. Francis II of the Two Sicilies (1836 - 1894), half-brother of...
  5. Prince Alfonso, Count of Caserta (1841 - 1934), father of...
  6. Prince Ferdinand Pius, Duke of Calabria (1869 - 1960), uncle of...
  7. Infante Alfonso, Duke of Calabria (1901 - 1964), father of...
  8. Infante Carlos, Duke of Calabria (1938 - 2015), father of...
  9. Prince Pedro, Duke of Calabria (b. 1968).

As the father of I-7 married a Spanish princess, this meant that he had to renounce his succession rights for himself and his descendants. The reason was that in the case of an early death of King Alfonso XIII of Spain, his namesake would have inherited the Spanish crown, which was not a desired thing, even if the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies had not existed since 1861. This is why the more recognised succession in 1960 went this way...

  1. Prince Ferdinand Pius, Duke of Calabria (1869 - 1960), brother of...
  2. Prince Ranieri, Duke of Castro (1883 - 1973), father of...
  3. Prince Ferdinand, Duke of Castro (1926 - 2008), father of...
  4. Prince Carlo, Duke of Castro (b. 1963).

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Secundogeniture is also the reason why Carlos III of Spain was originally Duke of Parma. The title went in 1748 to his younger brother, with whom this descent begins.

I. House of Bourbon-Parma:

  1. Philip, Duke of Parma (1720 - 1765), father of...
  2. Ferdinand, Duke of Parma (1751 - 1802), father of...
  3. Louis I of Etruria (1773 - 1803), father of...
  4. Charles II, Duke of Parma (1799 - 1883), grandfather of...
  5. Robert I, Duke of Parma (1848 - 1907), father of...
  6. Henry, Duke of Parma (1873 - 1939), brother of...
  7. Joseph, Duke of Parma (1875 - 1950), brother of...
  8. Elias, Duke of Parma (1880 - 1959), father of...
  9. Robert Hugo, Duke of Parma (1909 - 1974), half-nephew of...
  10. Prince Xavier of Bourbon-Parma (1889 - 1977), father of...
  11. Carlos Hugo, Duke of Parma (1930 - 2010), father of...
  12. Prince Carlos, Duke of Parma (b. 1970).

According to some Carlists, the most recent Dukes of Parma (the Duchy ceased to exist in 1859) have been the rightful Kings of Spain. I would elaborate, but I don't think such silly claims have any merit.
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Since 1883, it is generally thought that the Head of the House of Bourbon is not the same man as the Head of the House of France. This is because King Felipe V of Spain renounced his French succession rights for himself and his (male-line) descendants in the early 18th century. Whether that was right or wrong, binding or not, is not for this thread to decide. 
The descent below begins with an usurper, whose grandson eventually became a truly legitimate pretender for the throne.

I. House of Bourbon-Orléans:

  1. Louis Philippe I (1773 - 1850), grandfather of...
  2. Prince Philippe, Count of Paris (1838 - 1894), father of...
  3. Prince Philippe, Duke of Orléans (1869–1926), first cousin of...


II. House of Bourbon-Chartres [Descended from Ferdinand Philippe, Duke of Orléans, through his son, Prince Robert, Duke of Chartres]:

  1. Prince Jean, Duke of Guise (1874 - 1940), father of...
  2. Henri, Count of Paris (1908–1999), father of...
  3. Henri, Count of Paris (1933–2019), father of...
  4. Jean, Count of Paris (b. 1965).

King Louis Philippe I of the French was an agnatic descendant of Philippe I, Duke of Orléans (1640 - 1701), who was the younger brother of the Sun King himself.
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Incidentally, I have a personal theory, which I might have shared before, but definitely not on this forum. It goes that only the legitimate agnatic descendants of King Philippe II August had the right to inherit the French throne, on the basis that he established a truly hereditary monarchy. This would be another reason why the Capetian House of Courtenay was consistently denied the possibility of being capable to inherit the throne. Of course, after the mid-18th century this has been a moot point, because the only extant line is the House of Bourbon (in two dynastic branches after 1830).

Windemere

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
It was Carlo III of Parma who was the father of Roberto. Duke Ferdinando was Carlo III's great-grandfather. Apart from that, perfectly correct, though it is not this lineage that gives rise to the claim to Modena. The claim actually results from the marriage treaty of the 18th-century heiress Maria Beatrice d'Este, who is second in your lineage.


Peter, thank you for that information. I looked more closely at the lineage I'd posted. The "Duke Ferdinando" that I'd posted ought to have been posted as "Duke Carlo III", which was his regnal title and name. His full name (on Genealogics) is 'Fernando Carlo Giuseppe Maria Vittorio Baldasarre', and I'd shortened it to the Italian 'Ferdinando'. If I'd taken the time to look at the top of the page, I'd have seen that he was actually 'Carlo III'. ( I edited my post to reflect that.) And his great-grandfather, as you'd noted, was also Duke Ferdinando.

Murtagon, thanks for the Borbone-Parma and Two Sicilies  lineages that you've just posted above. Is this individual (Duke Carlo III) somehow missing from your Borbone-Parma lineage ?  I can see that you've listed his father (Duke Charles II) and his son (Duke Robert).
Postscript: Actually, I think I now realize why you skipped him. His father, Duke Charles II, abdicated in his favor, but actually outlived him, as Carlo III was assassinated in 1854.

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Dis Aliter Visum "Beware of martyrs and those who would die for their beliefs; for they frequently make many others die with them, often before them, sometimes instead of them."
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #28 

Dynasty №5: House of Wettin (Part Three)

As promised, I present the agnatic descent from four of the sons of Ernest I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha (1601 - 1675), who was a younger son of Johann II, Duke of Saxe-Weimar (1570 - 1605).
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I. House of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg:

  1. Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1646 - 1691), father of...
  2. Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1676 - 1732), father of...
  3. Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1699 - 1772), father of...
  4. Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1745 - 1804), father of...
  5. Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1772 - 1822), brother of...
  6. Frederick IV, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1774 - 1825).

In 1826, the Duchy of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg ceased to exist. Gotha went to Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld and Altenburg went to Saxe-Hildburghausen. More on that below.
The daughter of I-5, Princess Louise of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1800–1831), appears to have been the last member of this cadet branch.
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I. House of Saxe-Meiningen:

  1. Bernhard I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1649 - 1706), father of...
  2. Ernst Ludwig I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1672 - 1724), father of...
  3. Ernst Ludwig II, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1709 - 1729), brother of...
  4. Karl Friedrich, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1712 - 1743), nephew of...
  5. Friedrich Wilhelm, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1679 - 1746), half-brother of...
  6. Anton Ulrich, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1687 - 1763), father of...
  7. Prince Bernhard Ernst of Saxe-Meiningen (1716 - 1778), half-brother of...
  8. Karl Wilhelm, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1754 - 1782), brother of...
  9. Georg I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1761 - 1803), father of...
  10. Bernhard II, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1800 - 1882), father of...
  11. Georg II, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1826 - 1914), father of...
  12. Bernhard III, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1851 - 1928), half-brother of...
  13. Ernst, Prince of Saxe-Meiningen (1859 - 1941), father of...
  14. Baron Ralf Erich von Saalfeld (1900 - 1947), father of...
  15. Baron Hermann von Saalfeld (1928 - 2015), father of...
  16. Baron Franz Georg von Saalfeld (b. 1961).

Of course, the marriage of I-13 with Katharina Jensen was morganatic. Due to this the dynastic representation went to his nephew...

  1. Ernst, Prince of Saxe-Meiningen (1859 - 1941), uncle of...
  2. Georg, Prince of Saxe-Meiningen (1892 - 1946), father of...
  3. Prince Frederick Alfred of Saxe-Meiningen (1921 - 1997).

Prince Frederick Alfred had renounced his succession rights in favour of his uncle, Bernhard, Prince of Saxe-Meiningen (1901 - 1984), who was succeeded by his son, Prince Frederick Ernest of Saxe-Meiningen (1935 - 2004). He was a morganaut, however, so his own son, Prince Friedrich Constantin of Saxe-Meiningen (b. 1980) is not the current Head of the House. That would be Konrad, Prince of Saxe-Meiningen (b. 1952), a younger son of Prince Bernhard. He is the last dynast, as it is unlikely that he would demorganatize the Barons of Saalfeld (or his own nephew).
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I. House of Saxe-Altenburg:

  1. Ernest, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1655 - 1715), father of...
  2. Ernest Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1681 - 1724), father of...
  3. Ernest Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1707 - 1745), father of...
  4. Ernest Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1727 - 1780), father of...
  5. Frederick, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1763 - 1834), father of...
  6. Joseph, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1789 - 1868), uncle of...
  7. Ernst I, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1826 - 1908), uncle of...
  8. Ernst II, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1871 - 1955), father of...
  9. Georg Moritz, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Altenburg (1900 - 1991).

Hildburghausen was given to Saxe-Meiningen in 1826.
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I. House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha:

  1. John Ernest IV, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1658 - 1729), father of...
  2. Christian Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1683 - 1745), half-brother of...
  3. Francis Josias, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1697 - 1764), father of...
  4. Ernest Frederick, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1724 - 1800), father of...
  5. Francis, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1750 - 1806), father of...
  6. Ernest I, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1784 - 1844), father of...
  7. Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818 - 1893), uncle of...
  8. Edward VII (1841 - 1910), father of...
  9. George V (1865 - 1936), father of...
  10. Edward VIII (1894 - 1972), brother of...
  11. Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester (1900 - 1974), father of...
  12. Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester (b. 1944).

As Queen Victoria was against a personal union between the UK and SCG, her eldest son was made to renounce his rights, so that the Duchy could be ruled as a secundogeniture.
This meant that Ernst II was succeeded by his next nephew...

  1. Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818 - 1893), uncle of...
  2. Alfred, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1844 - 1900), brother of...
  3. Prince ArthurDuke of Connaught and Strathearn (1850 - 1942), grandfather of...
  4. Alastair Windsor, 2nd Duke of Connaught and Strathearn (1914 - 1943), first cousin once removed of...


II. House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (Ducal branch) [Descended from Albert, Prince Consort, through his son, Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany]:

  1. Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1884 - 1954), father of...
  2. Johann Leopold, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1906 - 1972), father of...
  3. Ernst Leopold Prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha (1935 - 1996), father of...
  4. Hubertus Prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha (b. 1961).

As II-3 was born of a morganatic marriage, the real successor of the last Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was his youngest son, Friedrich Josias, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1918 - 1998), who was the father of Andreas, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1943). 

Saalfeld was given to Saxe-Meiningen in 1826.
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It is one day expected that the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha will be the only dynastic branch left. I may return to it in the future...

Peter

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Reply with quote  #29 

There’s an interesting point to make about the Saxe-Meiningen succession, one which might not be immediately apparent due to the dizzying leaps the succession makes between brothers, nephews and half-uncles. But if you clear out everyone except the actual male line leading to the last reigning Duke, it becomes more evident:

  1. Bernhard I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1649-1706), father of
  2. Anton Ulrich, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1687-1763), father of
  3. Georg I, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1761-1803), father of
  4. Bernhard II, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1800-1882), father of
  5. Georg II, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1826-1914), father of
  6. Bernhard III, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen (1851-1928)

For comparison, here is the line proceeding from Bernhard I’s elder brother to the last heir of his duchy:

  1. Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1646-1691), father of
  2. Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1676-1732), father of
  3. Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1699-1772), father of
  4. Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1745-1804), father of
  5. Frederick IV, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1774-1825)

Five generations to take us to the last Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, who died in 1825; a whole one more to take us to the last Duke of Saxe-Meiningen, who died in 1928, a mere 103 years later. Curious. For completeness, let’s look at the lines from Bernard and Frederick’s younger brothers Ernest and John Ernest to their respective final heirs:

  1. Ernest, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1655-1715), father of
  2. Ernest Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1681-1724), father of
  3. Ernest Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1707-1745), father of
  4. Ernest Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Hildburghausen (1727-1780), father of
  5. Frederick, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1763-1834), father of
  6. George, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1848–1853), father of
  7. Prince Moritz of Saxe-Altenburg (1829-1907), father of
  8. Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1871-1955)

That’s a bit more like it from Ernest. Now for John Ernest:

  1. John Ernest IV, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1658-1729), father of
  2. Francis Josias, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1697-1764), father of
  3. Ernest Frederick, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1724-1800), father of
  4. Francis, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1750-1806), father of
  5. Ernest I, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1784-1844), father of
  6. Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1819-1861), father of
  7. Prince Leopold of Great Britain and Ireland, 1st Duke of Albany (1853-1884), father of
  8. Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1884-1954)

Yep, perfectly reasonable result there too. So what caused this strange anomaly in the Saxe-Meiningen line? Look at the dates for the second entry there, Duke Anton Ulrich, and the third, George I. You will see that the former was seventy-three when he fathered the latter. Which would generally be considered a bit late to be getting around to producing a son and heir.

Actually George was in no great rush either, 39 when Bernhard II was born, but the greater part of the blame must be fixed on Anton Ulrich. Who did however have some sort of excuse. He had actually married aged only 23 and fathered ten children, including three sons. Unfortunately, despite his best efforts with the Emperor and his male kin he could not get these sons recognised as heirs, their mother being a mere noblewoman.

Then his morganatic first wife died. Six years later, having given up on his de-morganatising efforts for his existing family, Anton Ulrich married again. To a lady 43 years younger but properly royal this time, who gave him eight more children including another four sons. George I was the last of these but only the second to survive his father, and his elder brother Duke Karl Wilhelm dying childless at the young age of 27 made him Duke in his turn. And that’s what happened to the missing Saxe-Meiningen generations.

Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #30 
Dynasty №11: House of Mecklenburg

Dating from the 12th century, this House is actually of Slavic descent, as their progenitor (Niklot) was a ruler of the Obotrites.

This descent begins with the first member who received the title of Duke in the 14th century. Eventually, the Dukes became Grand Dukes after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire. There were two main branches: one in Schwerin and another one in Strelitz.

I. House of Mecklenburg:
  1. Albert II, Duke of Mecklenburg (c. 1318 - 1379), father of...
  2. Henry III, Duke of Mecklenburg (c. 1337 - 1383), father of...
  3. Albert IV, Duke of Mecklenburg (bef. 1363 - 1388), nephew of...
  4. Albert, King of Sweden (c. 1338 - 1412), father of...
  5. Albert V, Duke of Mecklenburg (1397 - 1423), first cousin once removed of...

II. House of Mecklenburg (Second branch) [Descended from Albert II, Duke of Mecklenburg, through his son, Magnus I, Duke of Mecklenburg]:
  1. Henry IV, Duke of Mecklenburg (1417 - 1477), father of...
  2. Albert VI, Duke of Mecklenburg (1438 - 1483), brother of...
  3. Magnus II, Duke of Mecklenburg (1441 - 1503), father of...
  4. Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg (1479 - 1552), father of...
  5. Philip, Duke of Mecklenburg (1514 - 1557), first cousin of...

III. House of Mecklenburg (Third branch) [Descended from Magnus II, Duke of Mecklenburg, though his son, Albrecht VII, Duke of Mecklenburg]:
  1. John Albert I, Duke of Mecklenburg (1525 - 1576), father of...
  2. Johann VII, Duke of Mecklenburg (1558 - 1592), father of...
  3. Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg (1588 - 1658), father of...
  4. Christian Louis I, Duke of Mecklenburg (1623 - 1692), half-uncle of...
  5. Frederick William, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1675 - 1713), brother of...
  6. Karl Leopold, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1678 - 1747), brother of...
  7. Christian Ludwig II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1683 - 1756), father of...
  8. Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1717 - 1785), uncle of...
  9. Frederick Francis I, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1756 - 1837), grandfather of...
  10. Paul Frederick, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1800 - 1842), father of...
  11. Frederick Francis II, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1823 - 1883), father of...
  12. Frederick Francis III, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1851 - 1897), father of...
  13. Frederick Francis IV, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1882 - 1945), father of...
  14. Friedrich Franz, Hereditary Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1910 - 2001), eighth cousin once removed of...

IV. House of Mecklenburg (Fourth branch) [Descended from Adolf Frederick I, Duke of Mecklenburg, through his son, Adolphus Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz]:
  1. Borwin, Duke of Mecklenburg (b. 1956).
At the time of writing, the only living members of the House of Mecklenburg-Schwerin are the two daughters of Duke Christian Louis of Mecklenburg (1912 - 1996), the younger brother of the last Hereditary Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin: the Duchesses Donata (b. 1956) and Edwina (b. 1960).
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IV-A. House of Mecklenburg-Strelitz:
  1. Adolphus Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1658 - 1708), father of...
  2. Adolphus Frederick III, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1686 - 1752), half-uncle of...
  3. Adolphus Frederick IV, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1738 - 1794), brother of...
  4. Charles II, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1741 - 1816), father of...
  5. George, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1779 - 1860), father of...
  6. Frederick William, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1819 - 1904), father of...
  7. Adolphus Frederick V, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1848 - 1914), father of...
  8. Adolphus Frederick VI, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1882 - 1918), second cousin of...

IV-B. House of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (Second branch) [Descended from George, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, through his son, Duke Georg August of Mecklenburg-Strelitz]:
  1. George, Duke of Mecklenburg (1899 - 1963), father of...
  2. Georg Alexander, Duke of Mecklenburg (1921 - 1996), father of...
  3. Borwin, Duke of Mecklenburg (b. 1956), same as IV-1.
When the last Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz commited suicide (a very unusual fate for a monarch, at least in Europe), there was a succession crisis, because the heir-male was a morganaut (the Count of Carlow, who was IV-B-1). Charles Michael, Duke of Mecklenburg, (1863 - 1934), a younger son of Duke Georg August of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, was a dynast and he demorganatized his nephew, from whom the line exists to this day.
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To Peter: a very interesting observation on your part. When I first read it, I had the feeling that your next sentence would be along the lines of "... so it's widely rumoured that he was not the biological father". Ha-ha!

This makes me wonder what the biggest age difference between father and son was (in these circles). The smallest may have been that between João Manuel, Prince of Portugal (1537 - 1554), and King Sebastian of Portugal (1554 - 1578). The former was still 16 years old when he died and had he lived for a further 18 days would have seen his son.
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