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Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #61 
Heir №14: Duchess Donata of Mecklenburg (b. 1956)

One of the last remaining members of the House of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, this woman is the cognatic heir of at least two lines. Let us see.


I. Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (genealogical representation only):

  1. Frederick Francis I, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1756 - 1837), grandfather of...
  2. Paul Frederick, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1800 - 1842), father of...
  3. Frederick Francis II, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1823 - 1883), father of...
  4. Frederick Francis III, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1851 - 1897), father of...
  5. Frederick Francis IV, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1882 - 1945), father of...
  6. Friedrich Franz, Hereditary Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1910 - 2001), uncle of...
  7. Duchess Donata of Mecklenburg (b. 1956).


II. Duchy of Saxe-Altenburg (genealogical representation only):

  1. Ernst II, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1871 - 1955), father of...
  2. Georg Moritz, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Altenburg (1900 - 1991), uncle of...
  3. Prince Alfred of Prussia (1924 - 2013), uncle of...
  4. Duchess Donata of Mecklenburg (b. 1956), same as I-7.

Wikipedia also notes that Duchess Donata is also the heir-general of Gorm the Old, a semi-legendary Danish ruler. I have been unable to verify that claim.

However, I am pretty sure that there is at least one other certain one. I vaguely remember that it passed through Ivan VI of Russia and his unfortunate siblings and then to the Mecklenburg-Schwerin line. Any help here?

Now that there are no more males from Mecklenburg-Schwerin, it is widely considered that the de jure Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz has united the two titles and "realms".

Saxe-Altenburg is a different case. When Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg went extinct in the mid-1820s, there was an Ernestine ducal shuffle:
1. Saxe-Meiningen received Hildburghausen (from 2.) and Saalfeld (from 3.);
2. Saxe-Hildburghausen gave up that city and became Saxe-Altenburg;
3. Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld gave up the latter city and became Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

In this case, it appears that the Prince of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach now holds the representation (agnatically, sort of) for Saxe-Altenburg, perhaps as a compromise.

Now, as I am nearing the end of the credible heirs-general, I have a special offer for you:

Who would you like to see next? 

Until next time...

P.S. Peter, would you be kind and add this heiress to the list? Thanks in advance!
Windemere

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murtagon
Heir №13: Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern (b. 1952)

While undisputedly the Head of the Swabian branch of the House of Hohenzollern, Karl Friedrich may also be the Head of the entire House. Good arguments could be put forward for both him and his distant agnatic cousin, Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia. Fortunately, this is irrelevant for this thread.

Let us see what His Highness has got to offer.


I. Kingdom of the Two Sicilies (genealogical representation only):

  1. Ferdinand I of the Two Sicilies (1751 - 1825), father of...
  2. Francis I of the Two Sicilies (1777 - 1830), father of...
  3. Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies (1810 - 1859), father of...
  4. Francis II of the Two Sicilies (1836 - 1894), half-uncle of...
  5. Princess Maria Teresa of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1867 - 1909), mother of...
  6. Frederick, Prince of Hohenzollern (1891 - 1965), father of...
  7. Friedrich Wilhelm, Prince of Hohenzollern (1924 - 2010), father of...
  8. Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern (b. 1952).


II. Grand Duchy of Baden (genealogical representation only):

  1. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden (1728 - 1811), grandfather of...
  2. Charles, Grand Duke of Baden (1786 - 1818), father of...
  3. Princess Louise Amelie of Baden (1811 - 1854), mother of...
  4. Carola of Vasa (1833 - 1907), first cousin once removed of...
  5. William, Prince of Hohenzollern (1864 - 1927), father of...
  6. Frederick, Prince of Hohenzollern (1891 - 1965), same as I-6.

III. County of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen/Principality of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (also heir-male):


  1. Charles II, Count of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1547 - 1606), father of...
  2. Johann, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1578 - 1638), father of...
  3. Meinrad I, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1605 - 1681), father of...
  4. Maximilian I, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1636 - 1689), father of...
  5. Meinrad II, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1673 - 1715), father of...
  6. Joseph Friedrich Ernst, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1702 - 1769), father of...
  7. Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1724 - 1785), father of...
  8. Anton Aloys, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1762 - 1831), father of...
  9. Karl, Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1785 - 1853), father of...
  10. Karl Anton, Prince of Hohenzollern (1811 - 1885), father of...
  11. Leopold, Prince of Hohenzollern (1835 - 1905), father of...
  12. William, Prince of Hohenzollern (1864 - 1927), same as II-5.


The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was so named, because it consisted of the island of Sicily and the southern part of the Apennine Peninsula (also known as the Kingdom of Naples; it was formally referred to as the Kingdom of Sicily, as well). There are two current pretenders: the Dukes of Calabria and Castro. 

Again due to agnatic primogeniture, the pretender for Baden is Maximilian, Margrave of Baden. Incredibly, however, Karl Friedrich is also the heir-general for the entire line of Princes of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. By my count, that's 15 generations!

P.S. Peter, could you please add this heir to the list in the first post? Thank you in advance!



Thank you for posting these interesting male-preference lineages for Prinz Karl Friedrich of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen.

Carola of Vasa (#4 in the male-preference Grand Duchy of Baden lineage) was the granddaughter of deposed Swedish King Gustaf IV. (Gustaf IV had several grandchildren through his daughters, some of whose descendants are, I believe,  listed in your Princes  of  Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen lineage, but Carola was his only surviving grandchild through his son). I read somewhere years ago that, for some traditionally-minded Swedes unhappy with the elevation of Jean Bernadotte to the Swedish monarchy, Carola was considered the de jure queen of Sweden. According to her Wikipedia biography, Carola suffered 10 miscarriages during her time as Queen-Consort of Saxony. I believe that she was the last of the Swedish Holstein-Gottorps.

Interestingly, a male preference lineage from deposed King Gustaf IV leads to the present King of Sweden:

King Gustaf IV, father of:
Grand Duchess Sophie of Baden, mother of:
Grand Duke Friedrich of Baden, father of:
Queen Victoria of Sweden, mother of:
King Gustaf VI of Sweden, father of:
Prince Gustaf of Sweden, father of:
King Carl XVI of Sweden

Postscript: Murtagon,  upon just now doing some further checking, I see that this line I've just posted from King Gustaf IV to King Carl XVI  is basically a duplication of the line you'd posted several weeks ago in this thread  for the King of Sweden, and you'd already mentioned the connection between them in that post. Sorry for the redundancy.

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Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windemere



Thank you for posting these interesting male-preference lineages for Prinz Karl Friedrich of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen.

Carola of Vasa (#4 in the male-preference Grand Duchy of Baden lineage) was the granddaughter of deposed Swedish King Gustaf IV. (Gustaf IV had several grandchildren through his daughters, some of whose descendants are, I believe,  listed in your Princes  of  Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen lineage, but Carola was his only surviving grandchild through his son). I read somewhere years ago that, for some traditionally-minded Swedes unhappy with the elevation of Jean Bernadotte to the Swedish monarchy, Carola was considered the de jure queen of Sweden. According to her Wikipedia biography, Carola suffered 10 miscarriages during her time as Queen-Consort of Saxony. I believe that she was the last of the Swedish Holstein-Gottorps.

Interestingly, a male preference lineage from deposed King Gustaf IV leads to the present King of Sweden:

King Gustaf IV, father of:
Grand Duchess Sophie of Baden, mother of:
Grand Duke Friedrich of Baden, father of:
Queen Victoria of Sweden, mother of:
King Gustaf VI of Sweden, father of:
Prince Gustaf of Sweden, father of:
King Carl XVI of Sweden

Postscript: Murtagon,  upon just now doing some further checking, I see that this line I've just posted from King Gustaf IV to King Carl XVI  is basically a duplication of the line you'd posted several weeks ago in this thread  for the King of Sweden, and you'd already mentioned the connection between them in that post. Sorry for the redundancy.


No problem! It's good to see further interest in that field of genealogy.

Yes, Queen Carola of Saxony was the last male-line descendant of Adolf Frederick, who was King of Sweden from 1751 to 1771. The current King is his senior heir through male-preference primogeniture, as has been noted.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #64 
Heir №15: Prince Alexander of Wied (b. 1960)


The elder son of Friedrich Wilhelm, Prince of Wied (1931-2000), Prince Alexander has renounced his dynastic rights and so is not considered to be the current Head of the House of Wied.

He does, however, hold at least two prominent genealogical representations. Here they are.


I. Kingdom of Württemberg (genealogical representation only):

  1. Frederick I of Württemberg (1754 - 1816), father of...
  2. William I of Württemberg (1781 - 1864), father of...
  3. Charles I of Württemberg (1823 - 1891), brother of...
  4. Princess Catherine of Württemberg (1821 - 1898), mother of...
  5. William II of Württemberg (1848 - 1921), father of...
  6. Princess Pauline of Württemberg (1877 - 1965), grandmother of...
  7. Friedrich Wilhelm, Prince of Wied (1931 - 2000), father of...
  8. Prince Alexander of Wied (b. 1960).


II. Duchy of Brunswick (genealogical representation only):

  1. Ferdinand Albert II, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1680 - 1735), father of...
  2. Charles I, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1713 - 1780), father of...
  3. Charles William Ferdinand, Duke of Brunswick (1735 - 1806), father of...
  4. Georg Wilhelm Christian of Brunswick (1769 - 1811), brother of...
  5. August of Brunswick (1770 - 1822), uncle of...
  6. Charles II, Duke of Brunswick (1804 - 1873), brother of...
  7. William, Duke of Brunswick (1806 - 1884), first cousin once removed of...
  8. Charles I of Württemberg (1823 - 1891), same as I-3.

Both of these may need some elaboration.

Württemberg was a regular Duchy in the Holy Roman Empire until 1806, when thanks to Napoleon Bonaparte it was raised to a Kingdom (it had briefly been an Electorate). When King Charles I died childless in 1891, he was succeeded by his nephew (sister's son), who was also more importantly his agnatic cousin. The latter, King William II, died without a living legitimate son in 1921, so the representations diverged. The current pretender since 1975 has been Carl, Duke of Württemberg.

When Duke Charles William Ferdinand of Brunswick died in 1806, he was succeeded by his youngest son, Frederick William (ruled from 1806 to 1815), as he was apparently the most normal of them all. In any case, the current pretender here is Ernst August, Prince of Hanover, a male-line descendant of King George III of the United Kingdom.

So, I think this is going to be it, for the time being at least. Fifteen heirs - if anyone had told me that I would find so many suitable people with some really fascinating ancestries, I would have branded them a liar! [smile]

I would like to thank Peter, Windemere, Queenslander and all other readers from the "silent majority"!

P.S. Peter, could you please put this nobleman in his rightful place among the other heirs? Thanks again! 😉


Peter

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Reply with quote  #65 
Prince Alexander is also heir to the short-lived Albanian principality established just before WWI, by both male and male preference primogeniture. Or would be, but for his renunciation. Anyway, virtually no one supports the Wied line over that of Zogu. There is though a further and very little-known distinction Prince Alexander has. When absolute primogeniture first began to be mooted for Britain, lots of newspapers seized on the fact that Friederike von der Osten (elder sister of Hubertus of this parish), a descendant of the Kaiser -- pause here for horrified gasps -- would be Queen if the law had applied in Queen Victoria's reign. This was the most recent case where absolute primogeniture would have made a difference, but still did not seem a reasonable break point to me. So I went back to the Acts of Settlement and Union, the last prior change in succession law, and forward again from them. Guess who comes out of the hat? Prince Alexander, of course.

I hope there will be more on the thread in due course, but in any case want to record how much I've appreciated and enjoyed your efforts, and thank you once again for bringing some life back to the section.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #66 
Yes, of course, there will be, as long as I am alive and well! You are welcome!

As for Prince Alexander, when I saw what you had written, I remembered that he could have been King of the UK, if George III had died as a child or something. That's because he's the heir of Princess Augusta, elder sister of the aforementioned King. An interesting case of "What Could Have Been", even if rather contrived.

I would have mentioned Albania, if it hadn't been for the fact that I don't cover this kind of descents. I mean Prince Vidi's line went extinct with his son's death, so there is no descent from him.

Now that I've said that, let's have a look at a couple of monarchs who do not have surviving (legitimate) descent today:

1) King Otto of Greece (l. 1815 - 1867) did not have children. Two possibilities here: Ludwig II of Bavaria (l. 1845 - 1886), his nephew, OR Luitpold, Prince Regent of Bavaria (l. 1821 - 1912), his brother. Of course, the two lines converged in 1916. The current heir would be the Duke of Bavaria.

2) Prince Alexander of Bulgaria (l. 1857 - 1893) had (morganatically) a son and a daughter. He was succeeded by the former (Assen von Hartenau), who died childless in 1965. I see two possibilities here:
   A) Assen was succeeded by his first cousin once removed - David Mountbatten, 3rd Marquess of Milford Haven (1919 - 1970), whose heir at the moment is his elder son, George Mountbatten, 4th Marquess of Milford Haven (b. 1961).
   B) Assen was succeeded by his first cousin once removed - Lady Iris Mountbatten (1920 - 1982), who was herself succeeded by her first cousin once removed, Alfonso, Duke of Cádiz (1936 - 1989), whose heir is Luis Alfonso (b. 1974).

3) Prince Wilhelm/Wied of Albania (l. 1876 - 1945) had a daughter and a son. He was succeeded by the latter (Carol Victor, Hereditary Prince of Albania), who died childless in 1973. I also see two possibilities here:
   A) Carol Victor was succeeded by his first cousin once removed - Friedrich Wilhelm, Prince of Wied (1931 - 2000), whose heir is Prince Alexander of Wied (b. 1960).
   B) Carol Victor was succeeded by his first cousin - Marie Elisabeth of Wied (1913 - 1985), who was followed by her niece, Victoria, Baroness of Schlotheim (b. 1948).

Oh, I just can't catch a break, can I? [wink]
  
DC

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murtagon

2) Prince Alexander of Bulgaria (l. 1857 - 1893) had (morganatically) a son and a daughter. He was succeeded by the former (Assen von Hartenau), who died childless in 1965. I see two possibilities here:
   A) Assen was succeeded by his first cousin once removed - David Mountbatten, 3rd Marquess of Milford Haven (1919 - 1970), whose heir at the moment is his elder son, George Mountbatten, 4th Marquess of Milford Haven (b. 1961).
   B) Assen was succeeded by his first cousin once removed - Lady Iris Mountbatten (1920 - 1982), who was herself succeeded by her first cousin once removed, Alfonso, Duke of Cádiz (1936 - 1989), whose heir is Luis Alfonso (b. 1974).


Until 1902 when the Kassel line was granted the right of succession, Hesse and By Rhine was to pass to the female line in the event of the extinction of the male line.

I might be wrong here but I believe if this change had not happened after the death of the last Hesse and By Rhine male dynast, Prince Ludwig, in 1968, David Mountbatten (ironically a male line descendant of Hesse and By Rhine although via a morganatic marriage) would of been the genealogical heir to that claim based on male primogeniture as a descendant of Princess Victoria the eldest sister of Prince Ludwig's father. 

Although because the Battenberg/Mountbatten's are of morganatic descent so likely to have been excluded, probably the heir today would be your Heir No. 14 above, Duchess Donata of Mecklenburg as a descendant of the next sister who left descendants.

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Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #68 
Yes, the Marquess of Milford Haven is officially the genealogical "Head" of the House of Hesse-Darmstadt. I say "officially" because it's widely assumed that the paternal grandfather of Prince Alexander of Bulgaria was most definitely not someone who had ever held the title of Grand Duke. It must have been very convenient then, that Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine married morganatically. Of course, due to that morganatic marriage, the Marquess of Milford is only the heir-general of the last Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine. How ironic.

Having checked your last statement, Duchess Donata could have had a good claim to that, as well. Ah, royal intermarriage...
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