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Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #31 

Heir №1: Prince Pedro, Duke of Calabria (b. 1968) [Part Six]


XIV. Duchy of Parma (genealogical representation only):


  1. Philip, Duke of Parma (1720 - 1765), father of...
  2. Ferdinand, Duke of Parma (1751 - 1802), father of...
  3. Louis I of Etruria (1773 - 1803), father of...
  4. Charles II, Duke of Parma (1799 - 1883), grandfather of...
  5. Robert I, Duke of Parma (1848 - 1907), same as I-29.



XV. Kingdom of Scotland (possibly heir-general):


  1. David I of Scotland (c. 1084 - 1153), grandfather of...
  2. Malcolm IV of Scotland (1141 - 1165), brother of...
  3. William the Lion (c. 1142 - 1214), father of...
  4. Alexander II of Scotland (1198 - 1249), father of...
  5. Alexander III of Scotland (1241 - 1286), grandfather of...
  6. Margaret, Maid of Norway (1283 - 1290), third cousin once removed of...
  7. John Balliol (c. 1249 - 1314), father of...
  8. Edward Balliol (c. 1283 - 1367), first cousin three times removed of...
  9. Enguerrand VII, Lord of Coucy (1340 - 1397), same as XII-7.


Here are five other representations held by the Duke of Calabria. None of them are claims that could be successfully pursued.

A curiosity here is Pedro's undisputed descent from the Scottish House of Dunkeld. What's not as certain is whether he actually is the heir-general of these kings or not. The general reason for this "dispute" is that the order in which the sisters of John Balliol were born is not known with absolute certainty. While I did decide to honour it (it was, after all, featured on the website of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies), I thought that adding a disclaimer would be a wise thing to do. 

There is an additional claim for the representation of the Anglo-Saxon House of Wessex, but it's connected to the above one, so it's also somewhat dubious.

Speaking of Britain, as Peter has already noted, the Duke of Calabria is held by some Jacobites to be the real King of England, etc. The reason for this is that Maria Beatrice of Savoy (1792 - 1840) married her maternal uncle in 1812. This would not have been allowed in 1680s England, so following her death she would have been "succeeded" by her sister, Maria Teresa of Savoy (1803–1879), who was the grandmother of Roberto, the last reigning Duke of Parma. There you go!

As an aside, my hiatus became longer than anticipated due to circumstances (almost) beyond my control. However, I will still try to update this thread as frequently as possible.

To Peter: according to my calculations, there are six main Austrian/Habsburg lines. The Duke of Calabria is the heir to the first, third and fourth of them. I have already featured the last one almost completely in the introductory post about Prince Guillaume of W.G. The second one (Hubertus) and the fifth one (Alexander) would also be covered, hopefully.

Windemere

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murtagon
Thank you both for your contributions to this thread!

Windemere, I am not at all surprised that you mention this person in particular. When I was following the various lines and branches of the Capetians some time ago, I noticed him and his rather bizarre disappearance from history and decided to google him to find out more about the circumstances. In a forum (I think), someone asked about Alberic and the answer was that he never existed, that is, there was a forgery of some sort. Why, I have no idea. You'd better take all of this with a grain of salt though.

Peter, I have read that the Scottish succession of the Stewarts was Semi-Salic. This would logically mean either of two things:
1) When Mary became Queen of Scots, she did so because there were no other legitimate agnatic lines from King Robert II...

OR

2) When Mary became Queen of Scots, she did so because baby monarchs lead to regencies and that is good for the regent. In other words, there were legitimate males and they were bypassed. Weren't the Castle Stewarts legitimate?

As for the other British successions you mention: wait and see.

In a few hours, I should start with the next, also obvious heir. Until then!



Thanks for the previous informative posts.

Concerning Alberic of Boulogne:  He is indeed a curious historical and genealogical figure. I'd never considered the possiblility that he might not ever have actually existed. I wonder if there's any actual evidence for the forgery theory, or if it's based upon the dearth of information about him in the historical record. He appears several times on Wikipedia, usually mentioned in connection with his mother, the regnant Countess of Boulogne, or in connection with the history and succession to the County of Boulogne. He's not mentioned at all on Genealogics, although his sister is. 

Here's an entry about Alberic that appears in the scholarly journal Notes and Queries for June 23, 1877, page 488

"...Maud of Dammartin, sole daughter and heir of Ida, married Philip of France, son of Philip Augustus by Agnes de Meraine, his third wife. Now, most authorities, French and English, agree in naming Johanna or Jeanne Capet, who married Gaucher de Chatillon, and died without issue in 1251, as the only issue of this marriage; but L'Art de Verifier les Dates vol.ii.pp.662, 767 gives her a brother, Alberic, who is said to have settled in England, and to have been Count of Dammartin after his father's death in 1234. Whether such a person as this Alberic (who, if he existed, was a nephew of Louis VIII of France, and yet is not mentioned in any royal French genealogies I have seen) ever did exist, and, if so, whether he married and left issue, is the point in question. It is supposed that he did marry in England, and had a daughter, who married the eldest son of Guy de Montfort, Earl of Leicester, brother-in-law of Henry III. If so, did that eldest son (who was killed with his father at Evesham) have any issue ?  Any light thrown upon these queries would much oblige."

The entry is signed with the initials 'C.H.'  It can be accessed online on Googlebooks by googling: Did Alberic of Boulogne exist    There's another entry by the same author in the same journal, dated June 30, 1888, p.518, that repeats essentially the same information.

Simon de Montfort (1208-1265), 6th Earl of Leicester, and his eldest son Henry de Montfort (1238-1265) both have biographies on Wikipedia, and both appear on Genealogics. No wife or children are shown for Henry. Simon de Montfort was married to Princess Eleanor of England (daughter of King John), and she was Henry's mother. The author of the Notes and Queries entries, (C.H.), doesn't say where he acquired the information that Henry de Montfort was married to a daughter of Alberic. If true, it would indicate that Alberic had some sort of connections to the English royal family, which might explain his departing Boulogne (where he was heir to the Countship) and moving to England. Perhaps, at this point, we'll never know.

Anyway, after regnant Countess Matilda's death, Boulogne was inherited by her grandniece Adelaide, who'd married into the    Auvergne                 family, and whose descendants continued to rule Boulogne. Adelaide, also, descended from King Stephen of England, who was also Count of Boulogne in right of his wife, Matilda of Boulogne, the hereditary countess.

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Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #33 
Heir №6: Hubertus von der Osten (b. 1964)

Due to his cognatic descent from the former Royal Family of Prussia, this man is the heir-general to several notable individuals. However, he is not really considered a pretender for any throne.

I. Duchy of Prussia/Kingdom of Prussia/German Empire (genealogical representation only):

  1. Albert, Duke of Prussia (1490 - 1568), father of...
  2. Albert Frederick, Duke of Prussia (1553 - 1618), father of...
  3. Duchess Anna of Prussia (1576 - 1625), mother of...
  4. George William, Elector of Brandenburg (1595 - 1640), father of...
  5. Frederick William, Elector of Brandenburg (1620 - 1688), father of...
  6. Frederick I of Prussia (1657 - 1713), father of...
  7. Frederick William I of Prussia (1688 - 1740), father of...
  8. Frederick the Great (1712 - 1786), uncle of...
  9. Frederick William II of Prussia (1744 - 1797), father of...
  10. Frederick William III of Prussia (1770 - 1840), father of...
  11. Frederick William IV of Prussia (1795 - 1861), brother of...
  12. William I, German Emperor (1797 - 1888), father of...
  13. Frederick III, German Emperor (1831 - 1888), father of...
  14. Wilhelm II, German Emperor (1859 - 1941), father of...
  15. Wilhelm, German Crown Prince (1882 - 1951), grandfather of...
  16. Princess Felicitas of Prussia (1934 - 2009), mother of...
  17. Hubertus von der Osten (b. 1964).


II. County of Luxembourg, etc.:

  1. Henry VII, Holy Roman Emperor (c. 1274 - 1313), father of...
  2. John of Bohemia (1296 - 1346), father of...
  3. Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor (1316 - 1378), father of...
  4. Wenceslaus IV of Bohemia (1361 - 1419), half-brother of...
  5. Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368 - 1437), father of...
  6. Elizabeth of Luxembourg (1409 - 1442), mother of...
  7. Ladislaus the Posthumous (1440 - 1457), brother of...
  8. Anne of Austria, Landgravine of Thuringia (1432 - 1462), mother of...
  9. Margaret of Thuringia (1449 - 1501), mother of...
  10. Joachim I Nestor, Elector of Brandenburg (1484 - 1535), father of...
  11. Joachim II Hector, Elector of Brandenburg (1505 - 1571), father of...
  12. John George, Elector of Brandenburg (1525 - 1598), father of...
  13. Joachim Frederick, Elector of Brandenburg (1546 - 1608), father of...
  14. John Sigismund, Elector of Brandenburg (1572 - 1619), father of...
  15. George William, Elector of Brandenburg (1595 - 1640), same as I-4.


III. Principality of Orange:

  1. William the Silent (1533 - 1584), father of...
  2. Philip William, Prince of Orange (1554 - 1618), half-brother of...
  3. Maurice, Prince of Orange (1567 - 1625), half-brother of...
  4. Frederick Henry, Prince of Orange (1584 - 1647), father of...
  5. William II, Prince of Orange (1626 - 1650), father of...
  6. William III of England (1650 - 1702), first cousin of...
  7. Frederick I of Prussia (1657 - 1713), same as I-6.
TO BE CONTINUED...
Windemere

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Reply with quote  #34 
Based upon Hubertus von der Osten's descent from the Brandenburg Hohenzollerns, you might be able to derive a male-preference descent for him as the heir of the royal Piast kings of Poland.
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Peter

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Reply with quote  #35 
True, from the last two of them anyway. Like this, to II.5. Though I expect Murtagon already had it in mind, and will set it out in his own way.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #36 
Heir №6: Hubertus von der Osten (b. 1964) [Part Two]


IV. Kingdom of Poland, etc.:


  1. Władysław I the Elbow-high (c. 1260 - 1333), father of...
  2. Casimir III the Great (1310 - 1370), grandfather of...
  3. Casimir IV, Duke of Pomerania (1351 - 1377), brother of...
  4. Elizabeth of Pomerania (c. 1347 - 1393), mother of...
  5. Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368 - 1437), same as II-5.


V. Duchy of Austria (genealogical representation only):


  1. Albert II, Duke of Austria (1298 - 1358), father of...
  2. Rudolf IV, Duke of Austria (1339 - 1365), brother of...
  3. Albert III, Duke of Austria (1349 - 1395), father of...
  4. Albert IV, Duke of Austria (1377 - 1404), father of...
  5. Albert II of Germany (1397 - 1439), father of...
  6. Ladislaus the Posthumous (1440 - 1457), same as II-7.

For the time being, these are the representations that most often appear in connection with Hubertus von der Osten. I am certainly aware of a genealogical link between that gentleman and the medieval rulers of Bosnia, but it's unlikely that he is the direct heir-general.

As I've noted in the introduction, Hubertus cannot really be proposed as a candidate for any throne. Let us briefly see why.

The German Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia have not existed since late 1918. As agnatic primogeniture was the method of succession there, the claimant since 1994 has been Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia.

Luxembourg has been a Grand Duchy since 1815. In any case, its current Grand Duke is Henri (since 2000).

The Principality of Orange has been part of France since 1713. However, the only person at the moment who can legitimately claim the title of Prince of Orange is the current heir-apparent of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. At the time of writing, this is Catharina-Amalia, Princess of Orange.

I've already discussed Austria (Semi-Salic and House of Habsburg-Lorraine) and only two Polish monarchs do not make a convincing argument in favour of Mr. Von der Osten.

Of course, if anything significant that I've missed pops up, I would gladly add it later on.

To Peter and Windemere: Are you two mind-readers? 😃 
I have only done this Polish representation, because I had noticed it in another thread. Anyway, I had already prepared it when I saw your replies. Thanks anyway! 😉
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #37 
Heir №2: Franz, Duke of Bavaria (b. 1933) [Part Four]


VI. Duchy of Brittany:

  1. Conan IV, Duke of Brittany (1138 - 1171), father of...
  2. Constance, Duchess of Brittany (1161 - c. 1201), mother of...
  3. Arthur I, Duke of Brittany (1187 - c. 1203), brother of...
  4. Eleanor, Fair Maid of Brittany (c. 1184 - 1241), half-aunt of...
  5. John I, Duke of Brittany (c. 1217/8 - 1286), father of...
  6. John II, Duke of Brittany (1239 - 1305), father of...
  7. Arthur II, Duke of Brittany (1261 - 1312), father of...
  8. John III, Duke of Brittany (1286 - 1341), uncle of...
  9. Joan, Duchess of Brittany (c. 1319 - 1384), mother of...
  10. John I, Count of Penthièvre (1345 - 1404), father of...
  11. Olivier, Count of Penthièvre (c. 1387 - 1433), brother of...
  12. John II, Count of Penthièvre (1393 - 1454), uncle of...
  13. Nicole, Countess of Penthièvre (c. 1424 - 1480), mother of...
  14. Jean III de Brosse (? - 1502), father of...
  15. René de Brosse (1470 - 1525), father of...
  16. Jean IV de Brosse (1505 - 1564), uncle of...
  17. Sébastien, Duke of Penthièvre (1530 - 1569), father of...
  18. Marie de Luxembourg (1562 - 1623), mother of...
  19. Françoise de Lorraine, Duchess of Vendôme (1592 - 1669), grandmother of...
  20. Louis Joseph, Duke of Vendôme (1654 - 1712), brother of...
  21. Philippe, Duke of Vendôme (1655 - 1727), first cousin once removed of...
  22. Victor Amadeus II of Sardinia (1666 - 1732), same as III-13.

VII. Duchy of Savoy (genealogical representation only):

  1. Philip II, Duke of Savoy (1438 - 1497), father of...
  2. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (1480 - 1504), half-brother of...
  3. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (1486 - 1553), father of...
  4. Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (1528 - 1580), father of...
  5. Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy (1562 - 1630), father of...
  6. Victor Amadeus I, Duke of Savoy (1587 - 1637), same as III-10.

Here are two additional ducal representations for the Duke of Bavaria. Neither of them could actually be pursued.

Thanks to Peter, I decided to follow the Penthièvre claim to Brittany. As you can see, it does lead to the same person as the Montfort one, which was on the basis of agnatic primogeniture (but Semi-Salic). I seem to think that the representation could be slightly extended further back in time, but I made the decision to be somewhat conservative, in case I was too wrong. [smile]

The County/Duchy of Savoy was once ruled by the House of Savoy (agnatic primogeniture). There is some serious debate nowadays about who should be Head of that very old dynasty. As an aside, I believe that the Duke of Aosta may get his own entry in this thread, but he's not going to be the next heir-general I'd cover.

As with the Duke of Calabria, the Duke of Bavaria also had some representations I had neglected to mention due to various reasons. If any other interesting ones pop up, I'd gladly cover them as well.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #38 
Heir №7: Patrick Guinness (b. 1956)

A member of the famous Irish Guinness family of Beer and World Records fame, this man has held at least two genealogical representations since 1999. Here they are.


I. Lordship of Monaco/Principality of Monaco:

  1. Rainier I of Monaco, Lord of Cagnes (1267 - 1314), father of...
  2. Charles I, Lord of Monaco (? - 1357), father of...
  3. Louis, Lord of Monaco (? - 1402), brother of...
  4. Rainier II, Lord of Monaco (1350 - 1407), father of...
  5. Ambroise, Lord of Monaco (? - 1433), brother of...
  6. Jean I, Lord of Monaco (c. 1382 - 1454), father of...
  7. Catalan, Lord of Monaco (c. 1415 - 1457), father of...
  8. Claudine, Lady of Monaco (c. 1451 - 1515), mother of...
  9. Augustine Grimaldi (1482 - 1532), uncle of...
  10. Honoré I, Lord of Monaco (1522 - 1581), father of...
  11. Charles II, Lord of Monaco (1555 - 1589), brother of...
  12. Ercole, Lord of Monaco (1562 - 1604), father of...
  13. Honoré II, Prince of Monaco (1597 - 1662), grandfather of...
  14. Louis I, Prince of Monaco (1642 - 1701), father of...
  15. Antonio I, Prince of Monaco (1661 - 1731), father of...
  16. Louise Hippolyte, Princess of Monaco (1697 - 1731), mother of...
  17. Honoré III, Prince of Monaco (1720 - 1795), father of...
  18. Honoré IV, Prince of Monaco (1758 - 1819), father of...
  19. Honoré V, Prince of Monaco (1778 - 1841), brother of...
  20. Florestan I, Prince of Monaco (1785 - 1856), father of...
  21. Charles III, Prince of Monaco (1818 - 1889), father of...
  22. Albert I, Prince of Monaco (1848 - 1922), father of...
  23. Louis II, Prince of Monaco (1870 - 1949), second cousin of...
  24. Wilhelm von Urach (1897 - 1957), father of...
  25. Elisabeth von Urach (1932 - 1999), first cousin once removed of...
  26. Patrick Guinness (b. 1956).


II. Lordship of Neuchâtel/County of Neuchâtel/Principality of Neuchâtel:

  1. Rudolf I, Lord of Neuchâtel (c. 1070 - c. 1149), father of...
  2. Ulrich II, Lord of Neuchâtel (c. 1120 - c. 1191), father of...
  3. Rudolf II, Lord of Neuchâtel (c. 1150 - bef. 1196), father of...
  4. Berchtold, Lord of Neuchâtel (c. 1190 - 1261), father of...
  5. Rudolf III, Lord of Neuchâtel (c. 1210 - bef. 1263), father of...
  6. Amedé, Count of Neuchâtel (c. 1240 - 1288), father of...
  7. Rolin, Count of Neuchâtel (1274 - 1343), father of...
  8. Ludwig, Count of Neuchâtel (1305 - 1373), father of...
  9. Verena of Neuchâtel (bef. 1345 - c. 1384), mother of...
  10. Konrad, Count of Neuchâtel (c. 1365 - 1424), father of...
  11. Johann, Count of Neuchâtel (? - 1457), first cousin of...
  12. Wilhelm, Margrave of Baden-Hochberg (1406 - aft. 1473), father of...
  13. Rudolf IV, Margrave of Baden-Hochberg (1427 - 1487), father of...
  14. Philipp, Margrave of Baden-Hochberg (1452 - 1503), father of...
  15. Jeanne, Margravine of Baden (c. 1485 - 1543), grandmother of...
  16. François III d'Orléans, Duke of Longueville (1535 - 1551), first cousin of...
  17. Léonor d'Orléans, Duke of Longueville (1540 - 1573), father of...
  18. Henri I d'Orléans, Duke of Longueville (1568 - 1595), father of...
  19. Henri II d'Orléans, Duke of Longueville (1595 - 1663), father of...
  20. Jean Louis Charles d'Orléans, Duke of Longueville (1646 - 1694), half-brother of...
  21. Marie de Nemours (1625 - 1707), second cousin of...
  22. Charlotte de Goyon de Matignon, Countess of Thorigny (1657 - 1721), mother of...
  23. Jacques, Prince of Monaco (1689 - 1751), father of...
  24. Honoré III, Prince of Monaco (1720 - 1795), same as I-17.

These are the more or less certain representations held by Patrick Guinness. He is, I believe, considered heir to neither of them.

The legitimate ruler of the Principality of Monaco since 2005 has been His Highness Prince Albert II of Monaco.

The Prince of Neuchatel between 1707 and 1848 was usually the same person as the ruler of Prussia. A member on another forum has tried to list all possible candidates but this is not what I'm doing here. I'll note, however, that the birth order of the daughters of Prince Leonor is slightly uncertain, but it seems that not much may be wrong. Oh, well...

The next post is hopefully going to be a clash between claimants. Stay tuned...

Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #39 
Claimants Clash - Charles-Antoine Lamoral of Ligne-La Trémoïlle vs Patrick Guinness


Due to various reasons, such as the general passage of time, destruction of documents, lack of foresight and maybe even plain old sexism, we may now be uncertain about the number of children a monarch or a nobleman had or what their exact birth order was, especially if they were daughters in a monarchy that employed agnatic primogeniture/seniority. Here is one such case, which is rather infamous, due to involving a certain long gone throne that many a ruler desired to put on a roll of titles.

Due to the above, this post will have a slightly different structure.


I. Kingdom of Cyprus & Kingdom of Jerusalem & Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia:


  1. Hugh III of Cyprus (1235 - 1284), father of...
  2. John II of Jerusalem (1259/67 - 1285), brother of...
  3. Henry II of Jerusalem (1270 - 1324), uncle of...
  4. Constantine II, King of Armenia (? - 1344), father of...
  5. Isabella de Lusignan (c. 1333 - 1382/7), first cousin of...
  6. Leo V, King of Armenia (1342 - 1393), second cousin once removed of...
  7. Mary of Lusignan (c. 1360 - c. 1397), first cousin once removed (and mother) of...
  8. John of Lusignan (? - 1428/32), brother of...
  9. Peter of Lusignan (? - 1451), second cousin of...
  10. John II of Cyprus (1418 - 1458), father of...
  11. Charlotte, Queen of Cyprus (1444 - 1487), first cousin once removed of...
  12. Charles I, Duke of Savoy (1468 - 1490), father of...
  13. Charles II, Duke of Savoy (1489 - 1496), brother of...
  14. Yolande Louise of Savoy (1487 - 1499).


At this point, it becomes confusing. Fortunately, there are only two options here.

  1. Yolande Louise of Savoy (1487 - 1499), first cousin of...
  2. Charlotte of Naples (c. 1479/80 - 1506), mother of...
  3. Anne de Laval, Viscountess of Thouars (1505 - 1554), mother of...
  4. Louis III de La Trémoille (1521 - 1577), father of...
  5. Claude de La Trémoille (1566 - 1604), father of...
  6. Henri de La Trémoille (1598 - 1674), same as I-25 for Charles-Antoine Lamoral of Ligne-La Trémoïlle.

The second option is more straightforward.

  1. Yolande Louise of Savoy (1487 - 1499), niece of...
  2. Mary of Savoy (c. 1460 - 1511), mother of...
  3. Jeanne, Margravine of Baden (c. 1485 - 1543), same as II-15 for Patrick Guinness.

II. Kingdom of France (genealogical representation only):

  1. Philip VI of France (1293 - 1350), father of...
  2. John II of France (1319 - 1364), father of...
  3. Charles V of France (1338 - 1380), father of...
  4. Charles VI of France (1368 - 1422), father of...
  5. Charles VII of France (1403 - 1461), father of...
  6. Louis XI of France (1423 - 1483), father of...
  7. Charles VIII of France (1470 - 1498), brother of...
  8. Anne of France (1461 - 1522), first cousin twice removed OR first cousin once removed of...
  9. Anne de Laval, Viscountess of Thouars (1505 - 1554) OR Jeanne, Margravine of Baden (c. 1485 - 1543).


TO BE CONTINUED...
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #40 
Claimants Clash - Charles-Antoine Lamoral of Ligne-La Trémoïlle vs Patrick Guinness [Part Two]


III. Kingdom of Sicily, etc.:

  1. Charles I of Anjou (1226/7 - 1285), father of...
  2. Charles II of Naples (1254 - 1309), grandfather of...
  3. Charles I of Hungary (1288 - 1342), father of...
  4. Louis I of Hungary (1326 - 1382), father of...
  5. Mary, Queen of Hungary (1371 - 1395), sister of...
  6. Jadwiga of Poland (1373/4 - 1399), first cousin once removed of...
  7. Wenceslaus IV of Bohemia (1361 - 1419), fourth cousin of...
  8. Joanna II of Naples (1371 - 1435), fourth cousin once removed of...
  9. Charles VII of France (1403 - 1461), same as II-5.


IV. County of Savoy/Duchy of Savoy (genealogical representation only):

  1. Amadeus V, Count of Savoy (1249 - 1323), father of...
  2. Edward, Count of Savoy (1284 - 1329), father of...
  3. Joan of Savoy (1310 - 1344), first cousin of...
  4. Amadeus VI, Count of Savoy (1334 - 1383), father of...
  5. Amadeus VII, Count of Savoy (1360 - 1391), father of...
  6. Amadeus VIII, Duke of Savoy (1383 - 1451), father of...
  7. Louis, Duke of Savoy (1413 - 1465), father of...
  8. Amadeus IX, Duke of Savoy (1435 - 1472), father of...
  9. Philibert I, Duke of Savoy (1465 - 1482), brother of...
  10. Charles I, Duke of Savoy (1468 - 1490), same as I-12.

Despite some uncertainties here and there, this seems to me a correct order of genealogical representation for these thrones.

In my personal opinion, Anne of Savoy was born before Mary, her sister. I have based this belief on the tendency of the Cypriot monarchs to follow proximity of blood instead of primogeniture. This would mean that when Yolande Louise died in 1499, she was "succeeded" by her aunt Mary, as she was still alive, and not by her first cousin Charlotte. In any case, Charles-Antoine Lamoral is already heir to the slightly less confusing to follow "Brienne claim" to Cyprus and Jerusalem. I suppose an eventual marriage between the two lines could solve this historic riddle. Still, that's for them to decide, not for me. [wink]
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #41 
Heir №8: Alexander, Margrave of Meissen (b. 1954)


One of the two pretenders to the former throne of the Kingdom of Saxony, this man is the son of Roberto de Afif, a Lebanese nobleman, and Princess Anna of Saxony. In the late 1990s, Alexander was designated by his maternal uncle to be his successor. Since 2012, it has been debated whether he should be the true King of Saxony or not. Fortunately, this dispute is practically irrelevant for this thread.


I. Kingdom of Poland & Grand Duchy of Lithuania:

  1. Augustus II the Strong (1670 - 1733), father of...
  2. Augustus III of Poland (1696 - 1763), father of...
  3. Frederick Christian, Elector of Saxony (1722 - 1763), father of...
  4. Frederick Augustus I of Saxony (1750 - 1827), father of...
  5. Princess Maria Augusta of Saxony (1782 - 1863), first cousin of...
  6. John of Saxony (1801 - 1873), father of...
  7. Albert of Saxony (1828 - 1902), brother of...
  8. George, King of Saxony (1832 - 1904), father of...
  9. Frederick Augustus III of Saxony (1865 - 1932), father of...
  10. Georg, Crown Prince of Saxony (1893 - 1943), brother of...
  11. Friedrich Christian, Margrave of Meissen (1893 - 1968), father of...
  12. Maria Emanuel, Margrave of Meissen (1926 - 2012), brother of...
  13. Albert, Margrave of Meissen (1934 - 2012), brother of...
  14. Princess Maria Josepha of Saxony (1928 - 2018), aunt of...
  15. Alexander, Margrave of Meissen (b. 1954).


II. Kingdom of Portugal and the Algarves:

  1. Maria II of Portugal (1819 - 1853), mother of...
  2. Pedro V of Portugal (1837 - 1861), brother of...
  3. Luís I of Portugal (1838 - 1889), father of...
  4. Carlos I of Portugal (1863 - 1908), father of...
  5. Luís Filipe, Prince Royal of Portugal (1887 - 1908), brother of...
  6. Manuel II of Portugal (1889 - 1932), second cousin of...
  7. Georg, Crown Prince of Saxony (1893 - 1943), same as I-10.


III. Archduchy of Austria (genealogical representation only):

  1. Ferdinand II, Holy Roman Emperor (1578 - 1637), father of...
  2. Ferdinand III, Holy Roman Emperor (1608 - 1657), father of...
  3. Leopold I, Holy Roman Emperor (1640 - 1705), father of...
  4. Joseph I, Holy Roman Emperor (1678 - 1711), father of...
  5. Maria Josepha of Austria (1699 - 1757), mother of...
  6. Frederick Christian, Elector of Saxony (1722 - 1763), same as I-3.


IV. County Palatine of the Rhine (genealogical representation only):

  1. Rupert, King of Germany (1352 - 1410), father of...
  2. Louis III, Elector Palatine (1378 - 1436), father of...
  3. Louis IV, Elector Palatine (1424 - 1449), father of...
  4. Philip, Elector Palatine (1448 - 1508), father of...
  5. Louis V, Elector Palatine (1478 - 1544), uncle of...
  6. Otto Henry, Elector Palatine (1502 - 1559), first cousin of...
  7. Marie of Baden-Sponheim (1507 - 1580), grandmother of...
  8. William V, Duke of Bavaria (1548 - 1626), father of...
  9. Maximilian I, Elector of Bavaria (1573 - 1651), father of...
  10. Ferdinand Maria, Elector of Bavaria (1636 - 1679), father of...
  11. Maximilian II Emanuel, Elector of Bavaria (1662 - 1726), father of...
  12. Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor (1697 - 1745), father of...
  13. Maximilian III Joseph, Elector of Bavaria (1727 - 1777), brother of...
  14. Duchess Maria Antonia of Bavaria (1724 - 1780), mother of...
  15. Frederick Augustus I of Saxony (1750 - 1827), same as I-4.


If anyone wonders why Alexander de Afif is not King of Portugal, it has to do with a constitutional requirement which necessitates that one is Portuguese (born in Portugal) in order to be able to succeed. In any case, the rightful pretender is widely assumed to be the Duke of Braganza, whose great-grandfather was the uncle of Queen Maria II, namely King Miguel the Usurper or the Absolutist.

Incidentally, Alexander may also be the heir-general of an earlier line of Counts of Savoy (through IV), but I think these four are enough for now.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #42 
Heir №9: Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden (b. 1946)

The King of Sweden since 1973, Carl XVI Gustaf is the very first bona fide monarch to be featured in this thread. It is worth noting that due to the adoption of absolute primogeniture in the Kingdom of Sweden in 1980, His Majesty would one day most probably have two successors: one as a monarch (Crown Princess Victoria) and one as heir-general (Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland).


I. Kingdom of Sweden:

  1. Oscar II of Sweden (1829 - 1907), father of...
  2. Gustaf V of Sweden (1858 - 1950), father of...
  3. Gustaf VI Adolf of Sweden (1882 - 1973), grandfather of...
  4. Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden (b. 1946).


II. Kingdom of Sweden:

  1. Adolf Frederick, King of Sweden (1710 - 1771), father of...
  2. Gustav III of Sweden (1746 - 1792), father of...
  3. Gustav IV Adolf of Sweden (1778 - 1837), father of...
  4. Gustav, Prince of Vasa (1799 - 1877), father of...
  5. Carola of Vasa (1833 - 1907), first cousin once removed of...
  6. Frederick II, Grand Duke of Baden (1857 - 1928), brother of...
  7. Victoria of Baden (1862 - 1930), mother of...
  8. Gustaf VI Adolf of Sweden (1882 - 1973), same as I-3.


III. Grand Duchy of Baden (genealogical representation only):


  1. Leopold, Grand Duke of Baden (1790 - 1852), father of...
  2. Louis II, Grand Duke of Baden (1824 - 1858), brother of...
  3. Frederick I, Grand Duke of Baden (1826 - 1907), father of...
  4. Frederick II, Grand Duke of Baden (1857 - 1928), same as II-6.

Let us briefly have a look at what we have here, not much admittedly.

As I have implied in the introduction, Sweden employed agnatic primogeniture during most of the reign of the House of Bernadotte (since 1818). This method is what allowed Oscar II to succeed his elder brother in 1872 as King of Sweden and Norway (the latter only until 1905).

As it happens, King Gustaf VI Adolf could have already been considered as the King of Sweden for two decades, before he actually succeeded his father on the throne, due to having been the senior genealogical representative of King Gustaf IV Adolf. I wonder if the naming was intentional...

Finally, these were the last four Grand Dukes of Baden. Leopold had initially been born of a morganatic marriage, but he was demorganatised in the late 1810s, in order to keep the House of Baden from going extinct. Agnatic primogeniture is why the current pretender is Maximilian, Margrave of Baden.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #43 
Heir №10: Elizabeth II (b. 1926)

The daughter of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth (The Queen Mother), Elizabeth II has been the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland since 1952. She is additionally the Head of the Commonwealth of Nations, as well as the Queen of Canada, of Australia, of New Zealand and of many other realms.

I. Kingdom of Sicily, etc.:

  1. Roger II of Sicily (1095 - 1154), father of...
  2. William I of Sicily (1120/1 - 1166), father of...
  3. William II of Sicily (1153 - 1189), half-nephew of...
  4. Constance, Queen of Sicily (1154 - 1198), mother of...
  5. Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor (1194 - 1250), father of...
  6. Conrad IV of Germany (1228 - 1254), father of...
  7. Conradin (1252 - 1268), half-nephew of...
  8. Margaret of Sicily (1241 - 1270), mother of...
  9. Henry, Landgrave of Thuringia (1256 - 1282), brother of...
  10. Frederick I, Margrave of Meissen (1257 - 1323), father of...
  11. Frederick II, Margrave of Meissen (1310 - 1349), father of...
  12. Frederick III, Landgrave of Thuringia (1332 - 1381), father of...
  13. Frederick I, Elector of Saxony (1370 - 1428), father of...
  14. Frederick II, Elector of Saxony (1412 - 1464), father of...
  15. Ernest, Elector of Saxony (1441 - 1486), father of...
  16. Frederick III, Elector of Saxony (1463 - 1525), brother of...
  17. John, Elector of Saxony (1468 - 1532), father of...
  18. John Frederick I, Elector of Saxony (1503 - 1554), father of...
  19. John Frederick II, Duke of Saxony (1529 - 1595), father of...
  20. John Casimir, Duke of Saxe-Coburg (1564 - 1633), brother of...
  21. John Ernest, Duke of Saxe-Eisenach (1566 - 1638), first cousin once removed of...
  22. Johann Philipp, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg (1597 - 1639), father of...
  23. Princess Elisabeth Sophie of Saxe-Altenburg (1619 - 1680), mother of...
  24. Frederick I, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1646 - 1691), father of...
  25. Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1676 - 1732), father of...
  26. Frederick III, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1699 - 1772), father of...
  27. Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1745 - 1804), father of...
  28. Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1772 - 1822), father of...
  29. Princess Louise of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (1800 - 1831), mother of...
  30. Ernest II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1818 - 1893), uncle of...
  31. Edward VII (1841 - 1910), father of...
  32. George V (1865 - 1936), father of...
  33. Edward VIII (1894 - 1972), uncle of...
  34. Elizabeth II (b. 1926).

TO BE CONTINUED...
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #44 
Heir №10: Elizabeth II (b. 1926) [Part Two]


II. Kingdom of Great Britain/United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland:

  1. George I of Great Britain (1660 - 1727), father of...
  2. George II of Great Britain (1683 - 1760), grandfather of...
  3. George III of the United Kingdom (1738 - 1820), father of...
  4. George IV of the United Kingdom (1762 - 1830), brother of...
  5. William IV of the United Kingdom (1765 - 1837), uncle of...
  6. Queen Victoria (1819 - 1901), mother of...
  7. Edward VII (1841 - 1910), same as I-31.


III. Duchy of Brunswick-Lüneburg (genealogical representation only):

  1. William the Younger, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1535 - 1592), father of...
  2. Ernest II, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1564 - 1611), brother of...
  3. Christian, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1566 - 1633), brother of...
  4. Augustus the Elder, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1568 - 1636), brother of...
  5. Frederick IV, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1574 - 1648), uncle of...
  6. Christian Louis, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1622 - 1665), brother of...
  7. George William, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1624 - 1705), father of...
  8. Sophia Dorothea of Celle (1666 - 1726), mother of...
  9. George II of Great Britain (1683 - 1760), same as II-2.


IV. Duchy of Swabia (genealogical representation only):

  1. Frederick I, Duke of Swabia (c. 1050 - 1105), father of...
  2. Frederick II, Duke of Swabia (1090 - 1147), father of...
  3. Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor (1122 - 1190), father of...
  4. Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor (1165 - 1197), father of...
  5. Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor (1194 - 1250), same as I-5.

These are the most prominent representations of Her Majesty. There may be a couple of others, but I believe this is a good overview.

In 1688, King James II of England and VII of Scotland fled Britain and was (correctly, in my opinion) assumed to have abdicated. Unfortunately, he also took the little Prince of Wales with himself. This was the beginning of the whole Jacobite business. Long story short, the succession was changed and Georg, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg and Elector of Hanover, inherited the Kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland in 1714, becoming King George I from the House of Hanover.

In 1837, King William IV died and the personal union between the UK and Hanover ended. In Britain, his successor was his niece, Victoria. In Hanover, he was succeeded by his brother, Ernest Augustus. The latter's legitimate male dynastic line is still extant.

Due to the introduction of absolute primogeniture in 2015, it is expected that one day the actual monarch and the heir-general will be different people. That is unlikely to happen soon, though.

Personally, I was most interested in the Sicilian succession. I don't think I've seen this anywhere else before (in fact, several posts on this very forum seemed to imply that the Duke of Calabria or the senior heir of Franz Joseph of Austria-Hungary was the actual heir-general). It appears correct to me. In any case, I don't think Her Majesty's claim would be as strong as that of the Duke of Calabria or the Duke of Castro.

Incidentally, the above serves to show how royals and nobles who do not have (legitimate) descendants today may have more than one heir-general at the moment. For instance, when Conradin was murdered in 1268, his thrones "diverged": 
- Jerusalem (theoretically) went to Hugh, Count of Brienne, ancestor of Charles-Antoine Lamoral;
- Sicily (also theoretically) went to Margaret of Sicily, ancestor of Queen Elizabeth II.

There are several more heirs and pretenders that I have not covered yet. I intend to take a small break now. Hopefully, nothing bad will happen unlike the previous time I did that. [wink]
Windemere

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Reply with quote  #45 
Thanks for your previous interesting genealogical post showing Queen Elizabeth II as heiress to the Kingdom of Sicily. I think that a male-preference claim to Sicily could also be derived for Prince Pedro of Calabria, who was mentioned on this thread a while back. Here's a lineage (compiled from Wikipedia):

King Roger II de Hauteville of Sicily, father of:
Roger III de Hauteville, Duke of Apulia, natural father of:
King Tancred of Sicily, father of:
King William III of Sicily (who was displaced by his grand-aunt Constance and her Hohenstaufen husband, from whom Elizabeth II's claim derives), brother of :
Elvira of Sicily (whose descendants apparently maintained a claim to Sicily through several generations), mother of:
Walter IV, Count of Brienne, father of:
Hugh, Count of Brienne, father of:
Walter V, Count of Brienne, father of:
Walter VI , Count of Brienne, brother of:
Isabella, Countess of Brienne, mother of:
Sohier, Count of Enghien and Brienne, father of:
Walter IV , Count of Enghien and Brienne, nephew of:
Louis, Count of Enghien and Brienne, father of:
Marguerite, suo jure Countess of Enghien and Brienne, mother of:
Peter I Luxemburg, Count of Saint-Pol and Brienne, father of:
Louis of Luxemburg, Count of Saint-Pol and Brienne, father of:
Peter II Luxemburg, Count of Saint-Pol and Brienne, father of:
Marie of Luxemburg, Countess of Vendome, mother of:
Charles de Bourbon, Duke de Vendome, father of:
Antoine de Bourbon, King of Navarre, father of:
King Henri IV of France (after this, the succession is the same as in your previously posted succession to the Kingdom of Navarre, which leads to Prince Pedro of Calabria [who's also the heir to today's disputed succession to the Kingdom of Two Sicilies])


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