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Buttons

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Reply with quote  #1 
I just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed reading your forum. I am a member of The Royal Forums and also the Royal Insight forum. Are any of you members of The Royal Forum and Royal Insight too?
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #2 
Thank you; I'm glad you like it.  I am registered at The Royal Forums and sometimes read it but have never posted.  Perhaps this has changed but I recall not liking it that republicans were tolerated there.  For me royalty is a cause, not just a hobby, and TRF while sometimes interesting seems to treat it more as a hobby.  That is fine for people who like it but I've found I really only have time for my own forum; I don't think I need to start spending even more time online than I already do.
Buttons

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Reply with quote  #3 
Fair enough. I respect that. I like it when republicans and those with differing opinions are allowed on our forums. It also gives you an opportunity to put forward your arguments and to see them stand up to scrutiny in real debate. If supporting monarchy is your cause rather than a hobby I believe you must welcome and encourage debate.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #4 
We get enough of that 'discourse' in the 'real world'.

Here is a nice pub, with eccentric gentlemen (for the most part, though the club does not ban the fairer sex) who, though varied in all the things that normally divide a society, are united in their affection and support of Monarchy, here, abroad, yesterday and today.


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Buttons

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Reply with quote  #5 
How can you fight for a cause if not in the real world? Comparing this forum to a pub makes it sound even more like a hobby (like a darts or a dominoes club) than a cause. Nothing wrong with that of course.
jovan66102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttons
How can you fight for a cause if not in the real world? Comparing this forum to a pub makes it sound even more like a hobby (like a darts or a dominoes club) than a cause. Nothing wrong with that of course.


I think what the Baron means that this is a place that we can relax and recharge our batteries, so to speak, to gird ourselves for battle in the real world, whether online or not. I know that I spend a significant amount of time arguing for monarchy on non-monarchist fora or writing comments on news stories, Youtube clips, etc. I don't need to be arguing here.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Buttons

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Reply with quote  #7 
I thought that was the Baron's meaning. Thanks for clarifying it. I was just trying to reconcile Royal Cello's argument about this forum being a place to fight for a cause, rather than it just being a place to relax to do a hobby.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttons
How can you fight for a cause if not in the real world? Comparing this forum to a pub makes it sound even more like a hobby (like a darts or a dominoes club) than a cause. Nothing wrong with that of course.


My good man,
I come here for the comradery,  in the real world I deal with red-necks, drunks, and yellow-dog democrats.



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Buttons

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Reply with quote  #9 
I thought that was your meaning. Thanks for clarifying it. I was just trying to reconcile Royal Cello's argument about this forum being a place to fight for a cause, rather than it just being a place to relax, to have comradery, and to do a hobby.
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #10 
In addition to the clarifications from Baron and Jovan:

(1) It is my experience that hardened, convinced republicans are generally not going to be "converted" via online arguments.  (One of my attempts is here.) In most cases such debates are likely to be a waste of time.  I do hope to reach the vastly greater number of people "in the middle," who are neither "Monarchist" nor "Anti-Monarchist," and their questions are welcome here.  I like to think that JonathanCid is an example of someone that I and this forum have influenced towards monarchism.  But no one ever argued me into monarchism, I just have this strong internal instinctive attraction to it, so it's hard for me to figure out how to relate to someone who is totally the opposite, because we don't have any common ground on which to build a discussion.  I agree with the British pro-monarchy columnist (I think it was Libby Purves) who wrote (I think around the time of the 2002 Golden Jubilee) something to the effect that while plenty of rational arguments can be mustered in defense of the monarchy, ultimately, at the end of the day, you either get it or you don't. 

(2) What irritated me about both "The Royal Forums" and the various royalty discussion boards was not so much the existence of republicans per se, but what seemed to me to be a pervasive left-wing bias that put Modern Values (such as veneration of Democracy & Equality and refusal to even consider that non-democratic systems might be preferable in any way) ahead of support for royalty even among people who generally liked royalty as long as they stayed within their "constitutional" box.  For example I became very unpopular on the (ironically named in this case) "Franco-Iberian Royals Message Board" when I defended Francisco Franco because he restored the Spanish monarchy (even though the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War was increasingly controlled by Communists who were no more "democratic" than Franco was). 

(3) What I found really frustrating was the presence of a certain kind of republican, the kind that admits to enjoying the glamour and pageantry of royalty (hence their participation in the discussions) but nevertheless ideologically opposes monarchies (even "constitutional" ones) because they are not democratic and egalitarian.  For example I remember someone saying something to the effect that "we" (people interested in royalty) shouldn't mind if Europe's remaining monarchies were abolished because we could still follow their weddings and lives just like we currently do with the Greek, German, French etc. non-reigning royals, and other people seemed to think this was a reasonable point.  To me republicans like this are almost worse than the kind who don't get it at all.  They remind me of the "Renegade Trad" Catholic blogger who infuriated me by admitting that he found the trappings of monarchy attractive but rejects monarchism because it's "insane" in the 21st century.  Another example is a prominent American royal genealogist (whose book on the descendants of Queen Victoria unfortunately is genuinely indispensable for anyone who cares about such things) who bristles with contempt for anyone who dares to advocate the restoration of fallen European monarchies or tries to defend controversial monarchs of the past such as Wilhelm II or Nicholas II.  ("None of the three emperors [of 1914] were good Christians," she once self-righteously informed me.)  I just don't know what to do with people like that.    "Yes, royalty are very glamorous and interesting and all, but don't worry, I'm not like those crazy people who actually still believe in it."  Yuck!

bator

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Reply with quote  #11 
well dear theodore i also wish to thank you for your policy of not allowing die hard republicans in here. it is so nice and refreshing that at least we dont have to listen to godless republican scum in here.
by the way the republicans who said that they could still enjoy royal weddings in republics well i know that unfortunately the coronation ceremonies have been abolished in most countries, but still they couldnt enjoy the coronation of the british monarch, the prince of wales, the emperor of japan, coronations of many african kings if these monarchies were done away with. had iran remained a monarchy we would have seen the coronation of reza pahlavi ii. this is a thing you could answer those fools. another thing i have noticed is that i tried to show coats of arms of several countries to people, who knew nothing about the history and form of government of those countries. the old monarchist coat of arms and the in many cases several republican versions. and everybody of course claimed that the royal ones were the most beautiful. to me this shows it so silly to be a republican.
clark

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Reply with quote  #12 
"'None of the three emperors [of 1914] were good Christians,'"

St. Nicholas II and Bl. Karl pray that we may be delivered from such enemies of Monarchy.


Monarchy really is the most beautiful form of government. It is a shame that some people recognize this truth, but would still prefer the ugliness of republics.

jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
"'None of the three emperors [of 1914] were good Christians,'"

St. Nicholas II and Bl. Karl pray that we may be delivered from such enemies of Monarchy.


Monarchy really is the most beautiful form of government. It is a shame that some people recognize this truth, but would still prefer the ugliness of republics.



Amen!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
JonathanCid

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Reply with quote  #14 
Hi Buttons, welcome to the forum. Glad you like it. 

I see Theodore mentioned me here. Yes, I was certainly influenced by this forum towards a much more sympathetic view of monarchism, and then an adamantly pro-monarchy view. I'm fairly liberal (both politically and religiously), believe in concepts like equal opportunity, mixed government, liberal tradition, and of course, thanks to the influence of the monarchist arguments on this forum, the positive benefits of a Crown for a nation. 

I love the diversity of the forum members you'll see here. You'll find very conservative, deeply religious, "orthodox" folks; liberal, progressive, rationalistic folks; people of "unorthodox" spirituality, including at least one pagan; some gay folks; some atheists. That's a fair amount of diversity. 

With that said, I think for the time being it's best to maintain this forum as a place for those who are not rabidly anti-monarchy. When I came here, I came as a republican, but open to learning about monarchy and monarchism. Those of us who actively identify as monarchists are too much of a minority to risk opening the floodgates of republican trolls taking over the one place we've got to discuss our ideas. 

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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #15 
Yes, this forum has virtually every kind of "Diversity" except one: gender.  I never intended for it to be a "gentleman's club," but somehow that's what happened.  We have had female members, but they never seem to stay active for long.
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