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azadi

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Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France are currently conducting peace negotiations on Ukraine.  Germany and France want Ukraine to make concessions to Russia. Germany and France don't demand Russia ceding Crimea in the peace negotiations. 
https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-a-ukraine-summit-to-putins-taste/a-51605041

MatthewJTaylor

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This could be interesting.
Whilst I'm not a major Russophile, I'm more eager than most Brits to reconsider the borders of Eastern Europe and I see no reason for pro-Russian areas not to be unified with Russia.
When Grand Duke George Mikhailovich becomes Tsar, something I believe will happen within my lifetime, I hope he finds himself with a strong nation.

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Wessexman

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Personally, I'm indifferent to what happens in Eastern Europe and don't think it's Britain's interest. It was a terrible idea, through enlarging NATO, to make Britain responsible for the defence of the Baltic States or Macedonia. I have nothing against Russia's eventual annexation of Crimea, but I don't think it should be rewarded for the way it went about it.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
Personally, I'm indifferent to what happens in Eastern Europe and don't think it's Britain's interest. It was a terrible idea, through enlarging NATO, to make Britain responsible for the defence of the Baltic States or Macedonia. I have nothing against Russia's eventual annexation of Crimea, but I don't think it should be rewarded for the way it went about it.

Germany and France will not formally recognize Crimea as Russian territory. But they are willing to accept Crimea de facto remaining part of Russia, if Russia allows Ukraine to regain Donetsk and Lugansk. The EU will lift its sanctions against Russia, if Russia allows Ukraine to regain Donetsk and Lugansk, despite Crimea remaining part of Russia. Poland, the Baltic countries and Romania are sadly opposed to the EU improving its relations with Russia.
The EU ought to designate Crimea as disputed territory rather than as Russian-occupied territory. 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-russia-eu/eu-divisions-over-russia-mount-as-france-germany-seek-peace-in-ukraine-idUSKCN1WL04D

Geoffrey

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Since the day when Pharaoh disregarded Moses request for the bones of Josef til today, humanity was never in greater danger.

Sending the bones of Rabbi Nachman to Jerusalem is Alfa to Omega.

Period!

When you don’t understand, you ask, this is the sign of intelligence.

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InVinoVeritas

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No concessions should be given to Russia. It sets a bad precedent. "Feel free to attack your neighbor and in a few years we'll just forget about it". From the Russian point of view, peace treaties are meant to be broken anyway. Never forget the Treaty of Tartu and the ensuing attack on Finland and occupation of Estonia.
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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
No concessions should be given to Russia. It sets a bad precedent. "Feel free to attack your neighbor and in a few years we'll just forget about it". From the Russian point of view, peace treaties are meant to be broken anyway. Never forget the Treaty of Tartu and the ensuing attack on Finland and occupation of Estonia.

I want Crimea to remain part of Russia, because Russia has a far stronger historical claim to Crimea than Ukraine has, and because the majority of the Crimeans want Crimea to be part of Russia. I'm a staunch supporter of the right to national self-determination. The right of national self-determination applies to the Crimeans as well as to the Kurds.
I'm opposed to Russia violating the right to national self-determination. I support Ukrainian independence, because most Ukrainians want Ukraine to remain independent.
Germany and France will never allow Russia to invade Finland and Estonia, because Finland and Estonia are member states of the EU, unlike Ukraine.


MatthewJTaylor

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Any people group who wish to be Russian should be able to apply to the UN for the supervision of a referendum on admission to Russia.
Russia should accept those groups.
Russia should not send tanks in to take land.
If sovereign state refuse to act on these referendums, the UN should intervene.

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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor
Any people group who wish to be Russian should be able to apply to the UN for the supervision of a referendum on admission to Russia.
Russia should accept those groups.
Russia should not send tanks in to take land.
If sovereign state refuse to act on these referendums, the UN should intervene.

I support Ukraine regaining Donetsk and Lugansk, because Donetsk and Lugansk have always been considered parts of Ukraine, unlike Crimea.
Pallavicini

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I support Ukraine regaining Donetsk and Lugansk, because Donetsk and Lugansk have always been considered parts of Ukraine, unlike Crimea.


Ukraine and its borders are recognized internationally since independence in 1991. Crimea was a Tatar khanate for centuries before Russian annexation in 1783. The short-lived Ukrainian People's Republic of 1917-18 included Crimea. Taken from Ukraine in 1921, Crimea was returned to Ukraine in 1954.

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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallavicini


Ukraine and its borders are recognized internationally since independence in 1991. Crimea was a Tatar khanate for centuries before Russian annexation in 1783. The short-lived Ukrainian People's Republic of 1917-18 included Crimea. Taken from Ukraine in 1921, Crimea was returned to Ukraine in 1954.

The majority of the Crimeans wants to be part of Russia. I want Crimea to be part of Russia, because I'm a staunch supporter of the right to national self-determination and because a lot of imperial palaces are located in Crimea. If the Russian monarchy is restored, the Tsar ought to regain the imperial palaces in Crimea.
Pallavicini

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

The majority of the Crimeans wants to be part of Russia. I want Crimea to be part of Russia, because I'm a staunch supporter of the right to national self-determination and because a lot of imperial palaces are located in Crimea. If the Russian monarchy is restored, the Tsar ought to regain the imperial palaces in Crimea.


What about the wishes of the Crimean Tatars? Do their rights to self-determination disappear because of centuries of Slavic colonization and forced deportation? The Tibetans too, as their region is deliberately flooded with Han Chinese?  Is it really Self-determination going on, or “Might makes right” with the aid of external provocateurs as happened to Georgia in 2008?

Good for monarchists to recall that the Tatars had a royal family that ruled Crimea and resided there, year-round - for centuries -  before the Romanovs' comparatively brief and seasonal vacations in the peninsula.

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azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallavicini


What about the wishes of the Crimean Tatars? Do their rights to self-determination disappear because of centuries of Slavic colonization and forced deportation? The Tibetans too, as their region is deliberately flooded with Han Chinese?  Is it really Self-determination going on, or “Might makes right” with the aid of external provocateurs as happened to Georgia in 2008?

Good for monarchists to recall that the Tatars had a royal family that ruled Crimea and resided there, year-round - for centuries -  before the Romanovs' comparatively brief and seasonal vacations in the peninsula.

All Crimeans are entitled to the right to national self-determination, regardless of ethnicity. The majority of the current population of Crimea are ethnic Russians. The Crimean Tatars were deported by Stalin in 1944, but they were allowed to return in 1991. The Crimean Tatars were a minority of the population of Crimea before they were deported by Stalin. Putin has made Crimean Tatar an official language of Crimea.
Monarchism is far stronger in Russia than in Ukraine. In a conflict between two republics, monarchists ought to support the country, where monarchism is strongest. In a conflict between two monarchies, monarchists ought to support the country, where the monarchy is most vulnerable. I support the Spanish claim to Gibraltar, because the Spanish monarchy is far more vulnerable than the British monarchy.
Peter

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And neither international law nor the wishes of the Gibraltarians count for anything in the Azadian world, it seems.
azadi

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Originally Posted by Peter
And neither international law nor the wishes of the Gibraltarians count for anything in the Azadian world, it seems.

Supporting Spain in a hypothetical war with Britain over Gibraltar makes sense from a monarchist point of view, because the Spanish monarchy is far more vulnerable than the British monarchy. I don't want Spain to go to war with Britain over Gibraltar, because the Gibraltarians support continued British rule.
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