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Anti_Collegial

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You do not take a man as a guide, though you may be travelling along a road in his company, if you are willing to part company if he should make a turn of which you disapprove. It matters not what Romish doctrines the German Old Catholic party may continue to hold. They may believe Transubstantiation, Purgatory, Invocation of Saints, and more. But from the moment they ventured to use their reason, and reject a dogma propounded to them by their Church, they were really Protestants; they had adopted the great principle of Protestantism. - George Salmon, 1888

http://www.sounddoctrine.net/Classic_Sermons/George%20Salmon/infallibility_church.htm




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BaronVonServers

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Ah, Rome, the one who split from the Ancient Sees, is now the one which calls others 'protesters'.

Rich, ain't it?


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royalcello

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This article was written by a Protestant though.

I don't see the 1054 split as black-and-white as you (or the RCs) do. I think there was blame on both sides. Shame really.

Only an Anglican can hold this position, but for me an Englishman should be Anglican (though in modern times swimming the Tiber or the Bosporus is also a viable path for Englishmen unable in conscience to coexist with the abomination of priestesses), an Italian should be Roman Catholic, and a Russian should be Orthodox.

 

 

AaronTraas

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I agree with Theodore that there is blame on both sides in the case of the great schism, though as an RC, I ultimately think the Orthodox took the wrong position. I hope that the schism will mend in my lifetime. At this point it doesn't matter who's fault it is; the matter is the way forward, and efforts need to be made on both sides.

I don't think there's any such hope with respect to most protestants... The gap isn't merely one of schism, but vast theological and ecclesialogical divides.
Anti_Collegial

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It should be noted that five years prior to his assessment, Salmon would have observed the Old Catholics offering communion to Anglicans; the ties have grown only more formalized with time.  The Anglican Church remains in communion with the Old Catholics to this day.

As he said:

 When we regard the state of mutual feeling between members of the Anglican Church on the one hand, and on the other the Greek Church, or the German Old Catholics, or the Scotch Presbyterians, or the Scandinavian Churches, I think we can discern in all cases a growing sense that there are things in which we all agree, more important than the things on which we differ.  And the prospect is not altogether unhopefuI that, by further discussions and mutual explanations, such an approximation of opinion might be arrived at that there would be at least no bar to intercommunion.

another source:

http://anglicanhistory.org/cbmoss/orders.html

Quote:
It appears that in 1883 the German and Swiss Old Catholic Churches offered the privilege of Communion to any Anglican who should ask for it.

It appears that in 1883 the German and Swiss Old Catholic Churches offered the privilege of Communion to any Anglican who should ask for it.On the other hand, in 1878, the Lambeth Conference expressed its desire to help the Old Catholics; in 1888 it offered the privilege of Communion to all Old Catholics in good standing, who should not have contracted marriages contrary to the laws of the Anglican Churches: and in 1897, 1908, and 1920 it renewed this offer. The Old Catholic Church of Holland, however, was still doubtful about the validity of Anglican Orders. A commission appointed about 1894 to enquire into the matter came to no conclusion. A new commission appointed after the War reported that Anglican Orders were undoubtedly valid: and this conclusion was formally accepted, first by the Old Catholic Bishops of Holland, and then by the whole body of Old Catholic Bishops assembled at Berne in 1925. The relations between the two Communions are thus described in a paper published by the Society of St. Willibrord about 1910: "Intercommunion between the Anglican and Old Catholic Churches as organised bodies is at present incomplete; but individual members of either communion are officially allowed by the authorities of both communions to receive the Blessed Sacrament in each other's churches. The bishops or other ruling authorities on either side of course reserve to themselves the right of judging the fitness of any person to be admitted to communion. This statement applies as much to the Church of Holland as to the other Old Catholic bodies."

From the appended documents it will be apparent that, since the Old Catholics of Holland have now accepted Anglican Ordinations, a great advance to formal intercommunion has been made.


Schisming into a theological rebel alliance over a dogma issue, that is called biting off your nose to spite your face.  That's my biased and in this instance (infallibility), ultramontanist opinion of course.

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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #6 

It is entirely possible that I misjudged the intent of the poster.  The cause of the split was ego, on both sides, but when the one separates from the many, it is rich to call the many the schismatics.

I'll stick to the Anglican position:

One God in three persons and one canon reduced to writing by God himself,

two testaments and two sacraments instituted by Christ,

three creeds,

four general councils,

five centuries,

and as orthodox Christianity everything determined by the Bishops in Council to the degree that they are consistent with, while adding nothing to, the substance of dogma defined by the first four.


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