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ContraTerrentumEQR

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBonapartist
Great simply means one does well as king. Seleucus The Great did this through conquest. Napoleon is prevented from being made great from church dissatisfaction with his undoing of ineffectual leaders.


You are not a Catholic; do not insult Christ's Church nor pious Martyr-Kings who lived and died amidst complex historical events of which you are generally ignorant.

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Napoleon was a natural progression after the last three Louis' bankrupted their nation and lost the peoples' confidence.


He was an anti-Christ usurper and dictator who carelessly spent the blood of Frenchmen on unjust wars of self-aggrandisement and evil causes against God and man. In the future, you should refrain from making stupid judgments on men and events far beyond your understanding.

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KYMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #47 

I've been meaning to issue this correction to the article CaesarII posted, so here goes. Those bees used as a symbol of the First French Empire were not from Charlemagne, but from Childeric I, the last pre-Christian Merovingian monarch.


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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #48 
A very tardy response to clark,

No, my definition of who qualified for the honorific of "the Great" does not include Popes who obviously are subject to a much different set of criteria than other monarchs.

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clark

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Reply with quote  #49 
Ok, I should have realized that when I asked the question.
warning

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulblighter
If you wish to convince me that the Bonapartist way is not correct, best to keep religion out of it, it won't influence me one bit. I'm quite secular.

Also, do explain to me what makes The Emperor such a "miscreant".


Then don't read, this is for the others:

Napoleon is a miscreant due to his Treaty of Pressburg 1804, abolishing the Holy Right Arm of the Church. The Mystical Body of Christ is made up of many members each with different offices. As St Paul has said: For as in one body we have many members, but all the members have not the same office. The office of the Holy Roman Emperor is a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.

The Office of the Holy Roman Emperor is the temporal protector of the Church. The Spiritual authority of the Church (i.e. Pope & Bishops) has the office of excommunicating members from the Mystical Body of Christ. Laymen do not have this privilege. Napoleon took it upon himself to cut off the Right Arm of the Church with his treaty of Pressburg. Leaving the Church without proper temporal protection.

Some can ignore the True religion all they want, you can claim it has no basis in reality. When in fact those who despise the True Faith will never see the "big" picture and these are the ones who ignore reality.

So the real picture of this historical event of 1804 is found in the Church Fathers and their interpretation of St Paul and his second letter to the Thessalonians in which the Church Fathers claim that once the Office of the Roman Emperor (then pagan, now Roman Catholic) is removed from the world scene, then will the antichrist make his appearance:
 
"And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. And then that wicked one shall be revealed" 2 Thess 2

So by the revolt against the office of the Holy Roman Emperor by Napoleon, the world will now witness the manifestation of the antichrist (the forerunner to).

However this is a trial run, The final revolt against the Holy Roman Emperor is yet to come. Napoleon gave the world a foretaste of what to look for during the End Times.

I know the policy of this site. So I shall keep religious comments to the minimum. But there comes a time when some answers have to be given.

BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #51 
We completely agree that Napoleon was a miscreant.

You've skipped over the period of the Legitimate Catholic Emperors of the Empire.


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Soulblighter

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulblighter
If you wish to convince me that the Bonapartist way is not correct, best to keep religion out of it, it won't influence me one bit. I'm quite secular.

Also, do explain to me what makes The Emperor such a "miscreant".


Then don't read, this is for the others:

Napoleon is a miscreant due to his Treaty of Pressburg 1804, abolishing the Holy Right Arm of the Church. The Mystical Body of Christ is made up of many members each with different offices. As St Paul has said: For as in one body we have many members, but all the members have not the same office. The office of the Holy Roman Emperor is a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.

The Office of the Holy Roman Emperor is the temporal protector of the Church. The Spiritual authority of the Church (i.e. Pope & Bishops) has the office of excommunicating members from the Mystical Body of Christ. Laymen do not have this privilege. Napoleon took it upon himself to cut off the Right Arm of the Church with his treaty of Pressburg. Leaving the Church without proper temporal protection.

Some can ignore the True religion all they want, you can claim it has no basis in reality. When in fact those who despise the True Faith will never see the "big" picture and these are the ones who ignore reality.

So the real picture of this historical event of 1804 is found in the Church Fathers and their interpretation of St Paul and his second letter to the Thessalonians in which the Church Fathers claim that once the Office of the Roman Emperor (then pagan, now Roman Catholic) is removed from the world scene, then will the antichrist make his appearance:
 
"And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. And then that wicked one shall be revealed" 2 Thess 2

So by the revolt against the office of the Holy Roman Emperor by Napoleon, the world will now witness the manifestation of the antichrist (the forerunner to).

However this is a trial run, The final revolt against the Holy Roman Emperor is yet to come. Napoleon gave the world a foretaste of what to look for during the End Times.

I know the policy of this site. So I shall keep religious comments to the minimum. But there comes a time when some answers have to be given.



No need for the eye rolling, my good man. This is just a friendly conversation on the matter, not some sort of playground argument. I did read the argument and as you might've guessed, I don't feel it applies unless you're planning to dissuade Catholic Bonapartists of a traditional nature, of which there are none on this forum to my knowledge.

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jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulblighter
I don't feel it applies unless you're planning to dissuade Catholic Bonapartists of a traditional nature, of which there are none on this forum to my knowledge.
 
And damn few in the world, since Catholics as a general rule oppose the 'Incarnation of the Revolution', the evil miscreant Buonaparte. We may be divided between Houses, but we tend to be agreed in our opposition to the revolutinary usurper.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
CaesarII

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Reply with quote  #54 

Besides that Abbey in England, I am not sure I have ever heard any orthodox Catholics defend the little Corsican. Little of what he did could be justified in the eyes of the Church.

TheRoyalist

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Reply with quote  #55 
How can someone argue, from a Catholic viewpoint, that Napoleon was good, when he dismantled the Holy Roman Empire? when he did a dead blow to the Spanish Empire? when he himself brought words of Revolution to the whole of Europe?


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jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoyalist
How can someone argue, from a Catholic viewpoint, that Napoleon was good, when he dismantled the Holy Roman Empire? when he did a dead blow to the Spanish Empire? When he destroyed Tradition?


 
A Catholic can't eh? Only a Protestant or revolutinary liberal/atheist could.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
clark

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:

So the real picture of this historical event of 1804 is found in the Church Fathers and their interpretation of St Paul and his second letter to the Thessalonians in which the Church Fathers claim that once the Office of the Roman Emperor (then pagan, now Roman Catholic) is removed from the world scene, then will the antichrist make his appearance:




Is there a citation for this??

Personally (and I am going to be criticized for this I am sure) I think that the Russian Emperor has just as much a claim to being on equal level with the Holy Roman Emperor being that neither are of the original Empire (which the only remnant of that is the throne of the Patriarch of Constantinople). Personally I find these prophecies to be worthless as they attempt to place the end of the world on some predictable time table when Christ says that we will neither know the day or hour and that it wil come like a thief in the night.


Anyways, other then that I am  fully agree. Napoleon's crimes against the Empire surely were one of his many crimes against God.
To give him a little credit though, thanks to Napoleon, the Papacy was able to break out of a weak period and regain a fair amount of power and respect that had been lost previously during the enlightenment. Just showing that God can take a bad thing and bring some good out of it.

clark

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaesarII

Besides that Abbey in England, I am not sure I have ever heard any orthodox Catholics defend the little Corsican. Little of what he did could be justified in the eyes of the Church.



That little abbey actually seems to only defend Napoleon III, who was more favorable to the Church but still not a legitimate ruler of France.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovan66102
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoyalist
How can someone argue, from a Catholic viewpoint, that Napoleon was good, when he dismantled the Holy Roman Empire? when he did a dead blow to the Spanish Empire? When he destroyed Tradition?


 
A Catholic can't eh? Only a Protestant or revolutinary liberal/atheist could.

I doubt even a 'Protestant' could.....

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AndrewAussieGB

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Reply with quote  #60 

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoyalist
How can someone argue, from a Catholic viewpoint, that Napoleon was good, when he dismantled the Holy Roman Empire? when he did a dead blow to the Spanish Empire? When he destroyed Tradition?


 
A Catholic can't eh? Only a Protestant or revolutinary liberal/atheist could.


I certainly don't celebrate or defend the destruction of the Holy Roman Empire. And I certainly don't think that anything that Napoleon did was good.

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