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Ethiomonarchist

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The title "the Great" usually goes to someone who has been victorious militarily, which automatically means there will have been significant bloodshed during that person's tenure in leadership.  Leaders who preside over peace, prosperity, and cultural and religious revival are usually given honorifics such as "the Good", "the Kind", "the Just", "the Fair", or are canonized, but are seldom called "the Great".  Please provide me with examples of exceptions to this trend if I'm wrong.


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jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist

The title "the Great" usually goes to someone who has been victorious militarily, which automatically means there will have been significant bloodshed during that person's tenure in leadership.  Leaders who preside over peace, prosperity, and cultural and religious revival are usually given honorifics such as "the Good", "the Fair", or are canonized, but are seldom called "the Great".  Please provide me with examples of exceptions to this trend if I'm wrong.

 
Well, that pretty well exludes the Corsican gnome, Nappy, since he got his ar*e whipped every which way he turned!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Dmitry777

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Reply with quote  #33 
I know one Andersen fairy tale about the naked king.

I am Russian and also  I am very proud of what in Russia Napoleon has appeared naked.


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Reply with quote  #34 

Always easy to pick on a great man but watch all of you snap the moment someone current is remotely criticised.

jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBonapartist

Always easy to pick on a great man but watch all of you snap the moment someone current is remotely criticised.

 
You don't seem to get it, do you? Napoleon represents everything most of us despise. We are not criticising a 'great man'. We are pointing out that he was an usurper, a disaster as a military leader and a generally evil man.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!


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Reply with quote  #36 

This is all simply due to your proper lack of understanding.

AndrewAussieGB

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Reply with quote  #37 
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You don't seem to get it, do you? Napoleon represents everything most of us despise. We are not criticising a 'great man'. We are pointing out that he was an usurper, a disaster as a military leader and a generally evil man.


Well said!

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AndrewAussieGB

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Reply with quote  #38 

Quote:

This is all simply due to your proper lack of understanding.

 


Somehow I think there are people here with a better understanding than you, quite obviously, and Jovan would be one of them.

So far you haven't actually presented any arguments but have insisted on repeating fanciful nonsense. Perhaps this is because there are no arguments to support Napoleon's usurpation of the Throne of France in replace of its legitimate King's.

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clark

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist

The title "the Great" usually goes to someone who has been victorious militarily, which automatically means there will have been significant bloodshed during that person's tenure in leadership.  Leaders who preside over peace, prosperity, and cultural and religious revival are usually given honorifics such as "the Good", "the Kind", "the Just", "the Fair", or are canonized, but are seldom called "the Great".  Please provide me with examples of exceptions to this trend if I'm wrong.


Does this include Popes? I do not think Sts. Gregory or Leo presided over any military bloodshed : p  unless you consider putting the fear of God in the huns under that catagory.
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist

The title "the Great" usually goes to someone who has been victorious militarily, which automatically means there will have been significant bloodshed during that person's tenure in leadership.  Leaders who preside over peace, prosperity, and cultural and religious revival are usually given honorifics such as "the Good", "the Kind", "the Just", "the Fair", or are canonized, but are seldom called "the Great".  Please provide me with examples of exceptions to this trend if I'm wrong.



That's a valid point, but I would still say that most of the monarchs known as "the Great" still did not throw away their subjects' lives as recklessly and heartlessly as Napoleon or the American presidents I named, and their wars were fought for narrower and non-ideological objectives.

England's Alfred the Great, for example, fought mostly defensive wars, and while it's certainly important that he was successful, he was renowned at least as much for his contributions to learning and law.
ProudCanadian

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
That's a valid point, but I would still say that most of the monarchs known as "the Great" still did not throw away their subjects' lives as recklessly and heartlessly as Napoleon or the American presidents I named, and their wars were fought for narrower and non-ideological objectives 


'The Great' does not necessarily mean genocide and massacre, merely military success, such as defending the country from external conquest. It does not mean heartless genocide. Sometimes, bloodshed is necessary.


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Reply with quote  #42 
Great simply means one does well as king. Seleucus The Great did this through conquest. Napoleon is prevented from being made great from church dissatisfaction with his undoing of ineffectual leaders.
Napoleon was a natural progression after the last three Louis' bankrupted their nation and lost the peoples' confidence.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #43 

It's silly in my opinion to deny Napoleon's greatness as a general. His strategic overreach brought too many forces against him and he fell, but as a commander he is among the best. Not the best, that would be Alexander, who fought so many different battles against so many different (and usually much greater) forces on so many different grounds, and was never defeated, or remotely looked like being. But that does not stop Napoleon being a rare leader of men and great in that sense, and he was also a brilliant and innovative administrator. And a bloodstained tyrant and the curse of Europe, I do not as such admire him, but I do acknowledge his gifts.

jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
It's silly in my opinion to deny Napoleon's greatness as a general.



Sorry, Peter. One more thing to disagree on. No general deserves to be called 'great' who lost 90% of a massive army because of a stupid strategic call.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Peter

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Reply with quote  #45 

In the matter of conducting an actual battle he has few rivals (though he does have some). As a campaigner he was also often brilliant. His great error of invading Russia eventually led to his fall, but looking at his career overall his gifts are, to me, undeniable. We differ, not for the first time as you say!

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