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Reply with quote  #16 

I was wondering about the crooked cross myself. Thanks for the information!

Neville

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Reply with quote  #17 

I remember reading somewhere that the cross was not fixed because it symbolised that Hungary may bend, but would never break.

MonarchistCatherine

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Reply with quote  #18 
All the pics are beautiful and the article is very interesting. I have been interested in history of the House of Hapsburg for over a year and every time I look at those beautiful old photos from the coronation of Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita, I miss such beautiful ceremonies in present times. Today in most European monarchies (except for Britain, but the last coronation,of Queen Elizabeth II, took place in 1953.) the sovereigns aren't crowned with a Holy Mass. Why? Some people says this ritual is "undemocratic". But why the MONARCHY should be DEMOCRATIC? The Christian monarch should be crowned and anointed. This is beautiful ancient tradition and it should be restored.
There are another pictures from the Hungarian coronation of Karl and Zita:

Painting made in 1929 by Gyula Éder:


King Karl IV taking his sacred oath:


King Karl in full Hungarian coronation robe and regalia:


A beautiful old postcard with King Karl in coronation robe:


Queen Zita enthroned, wearing her crown and coronation robe:


A beautiful zoom of Queen Zita wearing her crown:


Queen Zita with her son, Crown Prince Otto:


Crown Prince Otto at their parents' coronation:


These are my favorite photos from this ceremony, majestic, amazing and nostalgic. Maybe you have some other? Let's post them here talk more about the last Hungarian coronation and possible future resoration of this glorious Empire with the Hapsburg dynasty and its traditions.

Long live the Emperor Karl II ! ! !


MonarchistCatherine

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Reply with quote  #19 
Does anybody know anything about the crown that is worn by HM Zita during the coronation? What happened with it? I couldn't find anything in the Internet and this lack of information seems strange to me.
bator

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Reply with quote  #20 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchistCatherine
Does anybody know anything about the crown that is worn by HM Zita during the coronation? What happened with it? I couldn't find anything in the Internet and this lack of information seems strange to me.

i totally agree with you. personally i would give my life to see coronations restored in my countries too. what a shame that the regalia are not used for their real purpose but just collecting dust in museums. it is a disgrace and a shame. as for your question i have been wondering about the crown myself, as it wasnt on display in budapest together with the saint stephen crown. i have a book where i think it says about it, i just have to find it.

MonarchistCatherine

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Reply with quote  #21 
Yes! Today's monarchs choose an enthronement or a proclamation instead of a coronation. It's shameful. Sovereigns should be crowned with a blessing from an Archbishop, with all pomp and circumstance as their great ancestors did. Only then they will be true, majestic monarchs.
HM Margrethe II, Queen of Denmark was proclaimed a new Queen by the Prime Minister from the balcony of Christiansborg, one day after her father's death. She looked very sad(her father died one day before the ceremony, why they didn't wait a few days) The present Danish proclamation ceremony is poor and short, the least "royal" in Europe. The Danish crowns are beautiful masterpieces of jewellery and they should be used in a proper way!

bator

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Reply with quote  #22 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchistCatherine
HM Margrethe II, Queen of Denmark was proclaimed a new Queen by the Prime Minister from the balcony of Christiansborg, one day after her father's death. She looked very sad(her father died one day before the ceremony, why they didn't wait a few days) The present Danish proclamation ceremony is poor and short, the least "royal" in Europe. The Danish crowns are beautiful masterpieces of jewellery and they should be used in a proper way!

you are so right. in norway at least they still have the signing (blessing) in the old coronation cathedral of nidaros in trondheim. the king insisted that he didnt want to start such a demanding job without Gods blessing.  a wise man ! at the time of the blessing the crowns are displayed beside the king. but still of course i would be so happy to see the norwegian kings wearing the crown and coronation robes. as you probably know (you seem to know really much) our last king to be crowned (or actually officially anointed as the absolute kings were already wearing the crown) christian viii. his son frederick vii who signed the constitution in 1849 were at times talking about riding to (i dont remember to where) and let himself be crowned. unfortunately he never did, and neither did he ensure that the constitution provided for a coronation of the monarch. :-(
as for you question about empress and queen zitas crown, according to the book : crown jewellery and regalia of the world, by rené brus, a boot that i can highly recommend to everybody. there are so many beautiful colour photos of regalia and monarchs wearing them, and so much useful and interesting information. anyway, according to this book, the crown was made in 1808, frame was remade in 1838, and remodelled in 1867 and 1916. it was originally made for empress maria lodovika. it is rumoured that some of the queens jewellery disappeared at the time of the secondunsuccessful attempt by karl iv to regain his throne in 1920. but it is not known if this included the crown, as it has never been seen since. these awful republicans have a lot of sins to answer to God and history.

bator

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Reply with quote  #23 

when i was in budapest i also asked in the museum if they knew where the crown was, but they replied, that we only have this one (saint stephens) now unfortunately the crown, orb, sword and scepter has been transferred to the parliament, while the coronation robe stays at the national museum. what a disgusting thing done by the politicians to split up the regalia. the robe is very old and considered originally to have been a priests robe.

MonarchistCatherine

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Reply with quote  #24 
I was in Budapest in 2009 and I asked our guide why the royal regalia are now on display in the parliament. He said that the Crown of St.Stephen is a symbol of Hungarian country and its history and now, when Hungary is a republic, they are kept in the most important place for people.
This crown is 1000 years old, more than 50 kings were crowned with it, and no king of Hungary was regarded as legitimate monarch without being crowned with it and swearing allegiance to it. It's a holy item, Pope Sylwester II has sent the first king his
blessings and this crown.
The Government coalition said that "the Holy Crown does not represent a form of government (monarchy), but is the symbol of the historic Hungarian state".
The crown was moved to Parliament building in 2000, as a part of celebrating the country's millennium.
So now the stupid republican politicians want to make from this holy regalia a symbol of their power! Keeping this crown in the Parliament is a great shame.

MonarchistCatherine

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Reply with quote  #25 
I have some other nice pictures from this coronation:

Crown Prince Otto with his guardian Count Wahliss:


Karl and Zita together during Hungarian Coronation Gala:





MonarchistCatherine

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bator
it is rumoured that some of the queens jewellery disappeared at the time of the secondunsuccessful attempt by karl iv to regain his throne in 1920. but it is not known if this included the crown, as it has never been seen since. these awful republicans have a lot of sins to answer to God and history.


I hope that this crown wasn't destroyed and one day it will be found and the new King and Queen of Hungary will be crowned...

DutchMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #27 

Coronations are valuable traditions in countries where they have existed for so many centuries. The Nederlands never had a real coronation, though, we only have an inauguration ceremony. We might get another one in the next few years, the queen is already older than any of her predecessors were when they resigned.

bator

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Reply with quote  #28 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchistCatherine
I was in Budapest in 2009 and I asked our guide why the royal regalia are now on display in the parliament. He said that the Crown of St.Stephen is a symbol of Hungarian country and its history and now, when Hungary is a republic, they are kept in the most important place for people.
This crown is 1000 years old, more than 50 kings were crowned with it, and no king of Hungary was regarded as legitimate monarch without being crowned with it and swearing allegiance to it. It's a holy item, Pope Sylwester II has sent the first king his
blessings and this crown.
The Government coalition said that "the Holy Crown does not represent a form of government (monarchy), but is the symbol of the historic Hungarian state".
The crown was moved to Parliament building in 2000, as a part of celebrating the country's millennium.
So now the stupid republican politicians want to make from this holy regalia a symbol of their power! Keeping this crown in the Parliament is a great shame.

and furthermore now in the parliament you can only watch the regalia shortly and then you have to move on. when it was in the museum i could study and enjoy them for as long as i wanted. and the whole atmosphere was so encouraging and solemn. even though there were no signs telling you to be quiet or whisper, everybody automatically whispered out of respect for the sacred crown. people could by instinct feel that it was the proper thing to do. it was a really beautiful experience that has unfortunately been ruined now.

bator

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Reply with quote  #29 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchistCatherine
Quote:

Originally Posted by bator
it is rumoured that some of the queens jewellery disappeared at the time of the secondunsuccessful attempt by karl iv to regain his throne in 1920. but it is not known if this included the crown, as it has never been seen since. these awful republicans have a lot of sins to answer to God and history.


I hope that this crown wasn't destroyed and one day it will be found and the new King and Queen of Hungary will be crowned...

tears would come from my eyes out of happiness if God would allow me to experience this

bator

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchMonarchist

Coronations are valuable traditions in countries where they have existed for so many centuries. The Nederlands never had a real coronation, though, we only have an inauguration ceremony. We might get another one in the next few years, the queen is already older than any of her predecessors were when they resigned.

but i have read in the same book as recommended above, that there was planned a coronation in 1815 in bruxelles which was then dutch. unfortunately it never took place. but it was supposed to happen, and after aææ crowns are made for being placed on the head of a monarch. it also said that the dutch crowns are too big for an average head, but perhaps the first crown was made so to allow the king to wear a whig under it. that was normal formerly. so the later kings could have worn a whig or made the new crown smaller, but unfortunately they didnt. and i still wonder why i havent been able to find a photo of quees beatrix in coronation robes with the regalia displayed beside her. such a photo exist for her mother, late queen juliana. but they might even have stopped making such photos i fear. :-(

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