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Reply with quote  #16 
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Originally Posted by Everyman

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Originally Posted by jovan66102
Good, but there seems to be little serious interest outside two or three of us. Have you checked out the draft Rule? We're open to suggestions!

Yeah, I read the entire Rule and was rather impressed. I can tell you put a lot of effort into drafting it. I do have some questions, though. First, and forgive me for not picking up on this, what would you describe as the main purpose of this order? The Fraternity of St. Sebastian basically provides protection to suffering priests, so what would this group do? I guess that is still rather vague in my mind. Maybe if that one element was made more clear more would show enthused interest.

 
Actually that was the problem, We explained that the Militia was to prepare physically and mentally to defend our families, our homes and our Churches in necessity. It was at that point that all interest dropped off and several people on FishEaters told us to shut up essentially. A lot of people were interested if it was just an all-male debating society, but when we talked about preparing for action, they all ran!
 
Also, if you check the threads at drupal most of us are married and/or members of secular orders and thus debarred from the Fraternity.
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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovan66102
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Originally Posted by Everyman

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Originally Posted by jovan66102
Good, but there seems to be little serious interest outside two or three of us. Have you checked out the draft Rule? We're open to suggestions!

Yeah, I read the entire Rule and was rather impressed. I can tell you put a lot of effort into drafting it. I do have some questions, though. First, and forgive me for not picking up on this, what would you describe as the main purpose of this order? The Fraternity of St. Sebastian basically provides protection to suffering priests, so what would this group do? I guess that is still rather vague in my mind. Maybe if that one element was made more clear more would show enthused interest.

 
Actually that was the problem, We explained that the Militia was to prepare physically and mentally to defend our families, our homes and our Churches in necessity. It was at that point that all interest dropped off and several people on FishEaters told us to shut up essentially. A lot of people were interested if it was just an all-male debating society, but when we talked about preparing for action, they all ran!
 
Also, if you check the threads at drupal most of us are married and/or members of secular orders and thus debarred from the Fraternity.

 

All I know is that reading that it wasn't going to be just another fruity-tooty group is what made me interested. You talk about action and I'm ready. BUT, I think I still need further explanation: What exactly do you mean by preparing "physically and mentally to defend our families, our homes and our Churches in necessity"?


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Reply with quote  #18 
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Originally Posted by Everyman
 

All I know is that reading that it wasn't going to be just another fruity-tooty group is what made me interested. You talk about action and I'm ready. BUT, I think I still need further explanation: What exactly do you mean by preparing "physically and mentally to defend our families, our homes and our Churches in necessity"?

 
What we started talking about was small groups gathering under the auspices of the Militia for physical training and the study of such subjects as small unit tactics, but that seemed to be what scared most people off. Others want to try to "convert" an existing order and then we run into one of the same problems we have with the Fraternity. For example I'm a Carmelite Tertiary of 20 years standing and have no desire to leave my Order.
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Reply with quote  #19 

I am one of those supporting the Catholic militia (in fact the discussion really started on my group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Catholicmonarchists/)

 

Jovan knows this, I for one am against converting an existing group as there are far to many problems involved.


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Originally Posted by jovan66102
What we started talking about was small groups gathering under the auspices of the Militia for physical training and the study of such subjects as small unit tactics, but that seemed to be what scared most people off. Others want to try to "convert" an existing order and then we run into one of the same problems we have with the Fraternity. For example I'm a Carmelite Tertiary of 20 years standing and have no desire to leave my Order.

Okay, I understand that people freak out when you talk about things that sound like weirdo, camaflauge pants-wearing, NRA-loving, live in the mountains, militia kind of stuff. What I want to know is: What is the purpose of the military training? Who would we be training to fight? Why?


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Originally Posted by "SupremeDirector"
We can start by fighting the Islamic nazis who are killing our people and destroying our churches. We can move on to the Protestant heritics later .
 

You did mean the 'Protestant nazis' not the 'Protestant heritics' right?

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Reply with quote  #22 
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Originally Posted by SupremeDirector
No, I meant the Protestant heretics, although I guess by saying that I'm being repetative. The Muslims who are going around killing everyone are the Nazis. They kill little children, kill Jews, oppress anyone different from them, and try and indoctrinate others.

Thats why I thought you meant the 'Nazi' flavour of Protestants, not us regular run-of-the-mill heretic types.

Seeing as how I was wrong on that point, Well, then I guess I should warn you: 

You'll need to pack a lunch when you try to move on to us.  This ain't Ireland.

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Reply with quote  #23 

Crusader style, heh? Well, do you think countries would appreciate our interference?

 

I had the impression maybe this "militia" would be more localized. Of course, I'm not interested in anything that smacks of guerrilla warfare.


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Reply with quote  #24 
I'm pretty sure that the militia would be for local defense, not foreign or domestic aggression.  I rather doubt anyone is seriously advocating arm violence here.

The original Crusades were to repel Muslims insurgents, and were invited to aid the Christian Byzantine Empire.  Perhaps if a local country asked for volunteer assistance from overseas some portion of the 'Catholic Militia' would heed the call, just as they did to liberate Jerusalem.

I'm sorry if I muddied the waters. 

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Reply with quote  #25 

Nicholas summed up what it was about:

 

 "a Traditionalist Catholic knightly order whose purpose was military training such as marksmanship, orienteering, small unit tactics, psychological warfare/propaganda, &c? ... this would be the modern equivalent of a knight. A modern military man capable of leading irregular military units in the field. An elite group from whom the officers could be drawn for a new Cristeros-style resistance when the time comes (be the battle against the secularists or the Mohammedans). Steeped in the Faith, yes, but instead of pancake breakfasts and taking part in the March for Life, they study and practice warfare as their raison d'etre"

 

This is not an offensive militia going about killing heretics or blowing up abortion clinics.  Its purpose is defense of Catholic parishes and homes against future secularist/Islamic forces and for the restoration of Catholic society should present governments collapse.  It is a work in process with a future goal. 


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Originally Posted by BaronVonServers
  Perhaps if a local country asked for volunteer assistance from overseas some portion of the 'Catholic Militia' would heed the call, just as they did to liberate Jerusalem.

 

I would oppose it becoming the military arm of anything but a Catholic state.  One can not be a Catholic knight and be mercenaries for a secular state. 


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Reply with quote  #27 
WhiteCockade,
Even a heretic Protestant  (Worse even, a fundamentalists Baptist) like me would have no issues loaning a bit of dirt for a week-end's training to such a defensive militia.  - Provided that if the time came, y'all practice due 'tolerance' if we came over to 'wait it out'.  PM me if a mixed Hammock/Swamp of about 15 acres in North West Florida would be of interest as a 'camp ground' to your group


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Reply with quote  #28 
Thank you Baron, for the kind offer.   Currently the militia exists only in the minds of a handful of men. I am not the Grand Commander (and would be the worst choice for the position should the militia take form). Nicholas (not a member of this forum)first came up with the idea and Jovan has done a lot of work preparing a rough draft of the rule.  I am only a vocal proponent and defender of the idea and hope to have the honor of being a member some day. First of course it needs to progress from a mere idea to a reality and there are still a few obstacles to overcome.
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Reply with quote  #29 

I think you guys misinterpreted what I wrote. When I said the thing about the Protestants, I was only joking, and if I offended you Baron, I apologize.

Also, I did not mean my suggestion to sound like I was advocating another Crusade. What I meant was that our people can go to those other countries and stand guard there. Not mess with the government, not cause trouble, mearly act in self-defense. Our churches do not need that in America or in most of Europe yet. It is needed in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and the Phillipeans. That is where the soldiers would go.

 

Lastly, I still don't understand why you are seeking to limit it to only Traditionalists who are willing to take the vows of Knighthood. There are already very few Traditionalist Catholics left, and even less who are willing to become Knights. I know many young Catholics who cling to post-Vatican II though, who would jump at the idea of a Catholic militia. How does it make sense to alienate most of our fellow Catholics? That is what I don't understand about your whole idea.


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Reply with quote  #30 

Thank you for the clarification.  Unfortunately I do not believe I could answer your questions without violating the rules of this forum. 

 

I will say this though, most of us are married men with careers and as such the idea of traveling to distant lands to defend these parish would result in us failing in our duties as husbands and fathers.  This is one of the reasons it is more of a local effort. Besides, it would take generations to build into any type of respectable force.  I see it as the laying of a foundation for when it is needed locally in the years to come. Maybe Jovan can give you his take on it.

 


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