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Rosa

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I was sitting in the middle of the bus today and overheard a conversation. These two boys were at first talking about the local gang wars (I'll post stuff on that too in another thread!)

 

Then this one guy said, "There is going to be a civil war in Iraq. And we will be forced to join the military. You know in the Civil War a million people died?"

 

Obviously some of my peers aren't really into politics/news/history so some of the things these boys said is off.

 

But could they be right? Opinions please. I'm scared. I don't want to die or friends to die or enemies to die.


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I understand the not wanting various people to die idea, but not wanting your enemies to die sounds misguided. Why would you not want your enemies to die? I dont mean some girl who annoys you at school but people who are dedicated to killing you and everyone who will not accept their rule. Why shouldnt you want them dead?

 

As for the draft it is extremely unlikely the draft will be reinstituted in the US shy of a ground invasion of America by a foreign power its not going to happen. There is absolutely no support for this among either the people or any serious member of the government. So you really needn't worry about a new draft.

Rosa

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I don't have many enemies. All I have are a bunch of girls who I will not name who don't like me and I do not like them. Popularity or Social Survival Wars are the only ones I have fought.

 

I don't know why I don't want people to die. I have always been sensitive to stuff. I mean yes,some of my friends think I could be the next dictator because I have read books about Stalin & Hitler but I'm not that coldhearted.

 

 


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WhiteCockade

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Iraq is a lost.  To secure Iraq it would take more than the draft.  Realistically if the Jacobin/Zionist revolution is to spread to Iran, they will need to bring back the draft.  That said it depends on who you ask. I doubt it though. 

http://parentsagainstadraft.org/


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BaronVonServers

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So far, we've lost fewer Americans in Iraq than to terrorist attacks on US soil.
I wouldn't count it quit a 'lost' --- yet. 

I think perhaps the Russians will 'contain' the Iranians, its there turn, (Actually its probably the French's turn, but they've never recovered from the Revolution) they are closer, and they have a more uneasy peace with the Muslims on the border than we do......

Calling up the unready reservists is very close to a 'draft', we will need to 'declare victory' and come home soon.  I hope we can find someone to hand the place over to on our way out.....


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SupremeDirector

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The Russians will not contain the Iranians, they are the ones giving them the material to use in their facilities to make the bombs!

 

The only reason people are up in arms about the number of casulaties in Iraq is because the media bombards the populace with numbers every single day about it. The British had what, 10,000 casulaties on the first day of one battle in WWI? Did they quit? No, they fought on so that the dead would not have died in vain. If we leave now (and I'm no fan of the Iraq war, but we're there, we might as well kill as many Islamonazis as possible), then the Muslims will just take it as yet again proving that you can win a war against a more powerful opponent mearly by wearing them out. That's how they defeated the Soviets, that's what they are doing to Israel, that's what they are doing to us. America, for all its flaws, is the only thing standing between China taking over the world and Muslims slaughtering all the nonbelievers. Iraq must be won.


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"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)


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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeDirector

America, for all its flaws, is the only thing standing between China taking over the world and Muslims slaughtering all the nonbelievers. Iraq must be won.

 
Huh? If the chi-coms take over the world I don't think the Muslim swine will be in any position to slaughter anyone!
royalcello

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The fact that lives were wasted in World War I on a much grander scale is no excuse for wasting more lives on a smaller scale now.  While the courage of the ordinary soldiers of 1914-18 is indeed admirable, there is nothing admirable about the callous foolishness of the governments that sent them to die for no good reason.  My love for the old monarchies, and all of the original combatants except for France were monarchies, does not prevent me from condemning the senseless slaughter that was carried out in their name and, in the case of the Russian, German, and Austro-Hungarian monarchies, ultimately destroyed them.   Kaiser Wilhelm II, horrified by what the war unleashed, was heard to moan, "I never wanted this."

I do not watch the news on TV or subscribe to a daily newspaper, nor is my internet time dominated by reading about casualties in Iraq.  Yet I am one of the millions of Americans appalled by the fact that any U.S. soldiers have died in a manifestly unjust war.  This "blame the media" stuff is neocon nonsense.

I do not believe the U.S. is capable of "winning" in Iraq.  If there is any lesson to be learned from over a century of American inverventions since 1898, it's that American interference in the world's affairs never makes anything better in the long run.  We should get out and get out now. 

See the following blog entries by conservative British columnist Peter Hitchens, who is hardly a pacifist:

Is there any good reason for staying in Iraq?

What are we doing in Afghanistan?
SupremeDirector

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Jovan,

 

Islam is like HIV. It can be suppressed, but it will never go away, and in the end, it will end up wearing down the Chinese, just like every other super-power which tried to stem the flow of bloodshead. Even if the Chinese took over, the Islamonazis would still find ways to blow up little children.


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Long Live The King, Long Live Louis XX!

"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)
SupremeDirector

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Royal, while I do not dissagree with the fact that American interventionism has not always helped, it has not always hurt either. For example, if America had not intervened, all of Europe would be speaking German right now. We only had to fight Japan, we never had to go further. Would you have preferred we not go to war in Europe too? I too do not feel there is much way to win in Iraq, at least not in the way it is normally understood. I feel every Muslim terrorist who dies is a victory for us. The more of them that die there, the less there are that can die while taking our civilians with them here. Its a simple calculation. They are going to kill themselves anyway, the only difference is whether or not we give them the chance to kill our civilians too while they are at it.


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Long Live The King, Long Live Louis XX!

"So pride yourself on what you are, And hold them all to words they can't take back. I've seen a place (it comes) to me in dreams, Where fires die but light still shines for us to see! Would God bless a murder of the innocents? Would God bless a war based on pride? Would God bless a money-hungry government? Noooo! Would God bless our ineffective court system? God bless the sweatshops we run. God bless America? God bless America?" ~Rise Against (Blood Red, White & Blue)


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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeDirector

(I)f America had not intervened, all of Europe would be speaking German right now. We only had to fight Japan, we never had to go further. Would you have preferred we not go to war in Europe too?

 

We did not intervene. Hitler declared war on us because he was allied to the "honourary Aryans" of the Japanese Empire.

royalcello

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeDirector
For example, if America had not intervened, all of Europe would be speaking German right now....Would you have preferred we not go to war in Europe too?


(1) First of all, if the U.S. had not intervened in the First World War and helped topple the German and Austro-Hungarian monarchies, Hitler would not have come to power and there would not have been a Second World War, at least not in the form that actually transpired.  Each American intervention has merely paved the way for the next intervention.

(2) That said, given that Hitler did come to power, we must also consider whether U.S. intervention in World War II was justified and whether its results were essentially positive.  Now before I go on, please understand that it has not been easy for me to reach this conclusion as half of my ancestors were Jewish, the other half were English, and I regard Great Britain and her monarchy with tremendous affection.   But I try to look at the situation objectively (as far as my own heritage is concerned) and put my monarchist, paleoconservative, antiwar American, and pro-Christian beliefs first.  And from that perspective, while I grant that the issue is more morally complex than that of 1917-18, no, I cannot defend U.S. involvement in World War II.  

It would have been better to let the two evil dictators, Hitler and Stalin, fight it out.  Stalin was responsible for millions more deaths than Hitler, and the UK/US alliance with him is indefensible.  Basically we allied ourselves with the most evil regime in the world in order to defeat the second most evil regime, and that's neither moral nor logical.   The Allied victory in 1945 resulted in the conquest of ten Christian nations by Communism, the deaths of thousands of anti-Communist refugees delivered to Stalin with the approval of Churchill and Eisenhower, and the fall of the Yugoslavian, Albanian, Italian, Bulgarian, and Romanian monarchies, as well as paving the way for the Cold War with all its waste and deaths.  So no, as bad as the Nazi regime was, I cannot see that the Soviet regime was any better or that 1945 is anything to celebrate.

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The more of them that die there, the less there are that can die while taking our civilians with them here.


This is not logical.  The threat to those of us living in North America and Europe comes from Muslims living in our countries, not Muslims living in Iraq.  Killing Iraqis does nothing to alleviate the problems posed by the mass immigration of Muslims to the West, and actually makes the situation worse by inflaming Muslim opinion against our governments.
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #13 
There is substantial evidence that FDR deliberately manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor, or at least knew about the attack beforehand and did nothing.  The US had been waging economic "war" against Japan for several years before 1941.  So, "we" did intervene, though not in a very honest and straightforward manner.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
There is substantial evidence that FDR deliberately manipulated Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor, or at least knew about the attack beforehand and did nothing.  The US had been waging economic "war" against Japan for several years before 1941.  So, "we" did intervene, though not in a very honest and straightforward manner.
 
Point taken and agreed to. I have no doubt that FDR did, at least, know of the attack.
royalcello

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To address Rosa's original topic, I agree with WhiteCockade that the neoconservative agenda for the Middle East (which seems to include "democratizing" not only Iraq but also Iran and Syria) ultimately could not be accomplished (if it can be accomplished at all) without a draft.   Of course this is a horrifying possibility and must be avoided.  I am glad that at 28 I am already past the primary age range for a draft; however, I have a younger brother and friends who are not.

While no one could claim that all military service before 1789 was strictly voluntarily, organized systematic mass conscription is a legacy of the French Revolution and must be opposed, especially when the war in question would be so clearly unjust.

Fortunately, I think that the return of the draft is still too unpopular to be politically feasible in the U.S. at this time.

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