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Spongie555

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Recently a breakaway group called the Society of Pope Leo XIII has approached the Vatican to unite their group with the Catholic Church. The groups claims they have 72 bishops, 500 priests and 8.5 millions followers. The society descends from the breakaway Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2012/08/17/breakaway-group-seeks-unity-with-rome/#disqus_thread 
 

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"Throughout my reign I will never rule you as a King. I will protect you as a parent, care for you as a brother and serve you as a son. I shall give you everything and keep nothing; I shall live such a life as a good human being that you may find it worthy to serve as an example for your children; I have no personal goals other than to fulfill your hopes and aspirations. I shall always serve you, day and night, in the spirit of kindness, justice and equality."

- His Majesty King Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck Coronation Address to the Nation, 6 November 2008
TheSupremeDirector

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Reply with quote  #2 
If a group really had 8.5 million followers, don't you think we would have heard of them before this?? It's amazing that a group that would rival the SSPX in size has never been heard from before. I noticed that there is no citation for facts or figures from anyone outside of this "movement" in the article. Journalism 101 tells me threes something wrong with this story...
royalcello

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I don't even like Leo XIII, he was the first pope who told French Catholics they should abandon royalism and "rally to the Republic."   I certainly wouldn't name my society after him if I were going to start one.  (Of course as an Anglican I also disagree with him about the validity of Anglican orders.)
DavidV

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This site refers to him though: http://sacrumimperium.blogspot.com
royalcello

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I think I once had a discussion with someone from that blog. They admire his social teaching while disagreeing with his French policy. I was admittedly being a little abrupt. There were good things about Leo XIII and he may have hoped that if French royalists cooperated in republican politics they would eventually be able to restore the monarchy.  (We now know how well that worked.)

On the other hand I think Pius XI had an actual animus against monarchists.  (September 13 will be the 85th anniversary of the resignation of one of my modern clerical heroes, Cdl Billot, the only cardinal to resign in the 20th century, who gave up his red hat rather than let the pope bully him into abandoning French royalists.)
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #6 
And maybe the Brazilian group follows Leo XIII's ideas in the same vein. The Brazilian Catholic Apostilic Church was founded by Duarte Costa after World War II and was once a radical church influenced by liberation theology, but became a far more conservative church after his death.

We cannot imagine the Church to have been perfect before 1958, as we all know. But too many won't recognise that the vandalism in the name of compromising with modernity and "renewal" of the church was of itself part of the wider social and cultural trend of the 60s and 70s. That's not to say that the Church hasn't done good in the postwar period (Poland and East Timor being two good examples of rallying the people) but I feel it's at the point now where it needs to recognise the errors of compromising with modernity, and a cleaning out of things.
Spongie555

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Reply with quote  #7 
I think the group chose the name to legitamise themselves. Here Is an article explaining the strangeness of the group especially their leader:

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/fiesole-santa-sede-holy-see-17232/

Recently their leader "Archbishop" David Bell has been in a dispute with an Italian bishop after the bishop disbanded a convent that welcomed the so called Cardinal.

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"Throughout my reign I will never rule you as a King. I will protect you as a parent, care for you as a brother and serve you as a son. I shall give you everything and keep nothing; I shall live such a life as a good human being that you may find it worthy to serve as an example for your children; I have no personal goals other than to fulfill your hopes and aspirations. I shall always serve you, day and night, in the spirit of kindness, justice and equality."

- His Majesty King Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck Coronation Address to the Nation, 6 November 2008
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #8 
The ICAB have eneavoured in the last two decades to set up similar churches outside of Brazil. Independent Catholicism is a fascinating but very murky matter, because of the issue of validity of consecrations. The Old Catholics which emerged out of Vatican I and joined with the "Jansenist" church in the Netherlands have since tended towards liberal Protestant tendencies, while the Philippine Independent Church, Polish National Catholic Church, Mariavites, and Old Roman Catholics all emerged in the early decades of the 20th century. Both the ICAB and PNCC were once liberal or even radical churches that became more conservative by the 1970s, when most Christian churches seemed to be moving in the opposite direction! (The PNCC broke off communion with Anglicans and OCs for that reason). Then you've got the (New Age) Liberal Catholic Church.

What connections, you might ask, exist between the fringes of the Traditionalist Movement and Independent Catholicism? Some links exist, particularly where consecrations are concerned.
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #9 
I would favor a Society of Pope Leo X.  He had vision.
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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #10 
I'm just frustrated the ICKSP isn't quite as widespread as SSPX and FSSP.
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #11 
Part of the reason for that may be the ICKSP's modus operendi, which I applaud, of focusing on taking over and restoring substantial, old, and beautiful but deteriorated real Catholic churches, which takes a lot of time and money.  Whereas the FSSP and SSPX will hold mass just about anywhere, with the emphasis on providing as many Traditional Latin Masses as possible whether they're particularly impressive aesthetically or not.  I suppose both approaches are necessary in the current situation.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #12 
Exactly. We are far from an ideal situation because if Traditionalists prevailed throughout the church then masses would be celebrated regularly in the churches we know and grew up with. It appears to me that schismatic groups including sedevacantists have sought to acquire their own property (likely out of necessity).

Here's an example of an FSSP centre in Sydney: http://maternalheart.org/
I know of FSSP mass centres closer to me in the Western region of Sydney, with which a certain Fr John Rizzo (once of SSPX) is involved. I believe he came to Australia some time after leaving the SSPX.
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #13 
I think the Rizzo affair had something to do with the divisions regarding Americanism within the SSPX in the US, but I've forgotten the details.  Probably there were other issues involved as well.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #14 
Yes I did read this from sources hostile to the SSPX. And obviously it wouldn't be of much use to be too picky regarding traditionalist groups in terms of lining up with my political profile but I guess the thing about being Catholic is that all of it can be regardless.
Spongie555

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Reply with quote  #15 
The Society of Pope Leo XIII has recently posted a letter it received from the Vatican on its facebook page. But I suspicious they blacked out parts of the letter:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=468680606487330&set=a.468680576487333.109867.228928573795869&type=1&theater

The letter is in Italian so here is a rough google translation (sorry dont speak Italian) of the letter:

"With thoughtful thinking, you have offered as a gift to the Holy Father, as evidence of compliance
 
Thank you for the act of devout homage and the feelings that people have suggested, His Holiness while leaving you and your loved ones to the maternal intercession of the Blessed Virgin's heart sends his greeting and blessing.
 
Take this opportunity to confirm with the separate estimation"


Maybe the Vatican is taking them serious unlike everyone else.


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"Throughout my reign I will never rule you as a King. I will protect you as a parent, care for you as a brother and serve you as a son. I shall give you everything and keep nothing; I shall live such a life as a good human being that you may find it worthy to serve as an example for your children; I have no personal goals other than to fulfill your hopes and aspirations. I shall always serve you, day and night, in the spirit of kindness, justice and equality."

- His Majesty King Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck Coronation Address to the Nation, 6 November 2008
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