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Peter

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Reply with quote  #181 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi
You have ignored the fact that the name laws of the Federal Republic of Germany prohibit persons, who lack recent noble ancestry, from using noble surnames.

Just how is one supposed to take cognisance of facts that are completely irrelevant to the argument? Ignoring them seems a perfectly reasonable approach.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #182 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

You have ignored the fact that the name laws of the Federal Republic of Germany prohibit persons, who lack recent noble ancestry, from using noble surnames.


Obvious trolling is obvious trolling. I can't seem to see a report function, but I think it is now time for Royalcello to weigh in and decide on Azadi's fate.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #183 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter

Just how is one supposed to take cognisance of facts that are completely irrelevant to the argument? Ignoring them seems a perfectly reasonable approach.

Claiming that the name laws are completely irrelevant to the argument, while the traditional rules of the German nobility, which were abolished in 1919, remain relevant today, is nonsense. The legal status of nobility fortunately is abolished in Germany, but the name laws of the Federal Republic of Germany ought to regulate the informal status of nobility.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #184 
There isn't one, you would have to PM royalcello. I have done that a couple of times previously on this issue, and the last time agreed with him that he would issue warnings but no immediate ban. I didn't at the time think a ban would be fair myself, an opportunity for reform should be offered first. To put it mildly, that opportunity has not been taken advantage of, and the forum is being rendered more or less uninhabitable by one person's selfishness and abysmal behaviour, the motivation for which is by now irrelevant. But while the button certainly needs pushing, badly, I have deferred doing so because as a self-employed musician royalcello will have enough worries to contend with and I don't want to add one. As soon as times improve I will contact him, if he hasn't already come by.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #185 
Yes, yes, there is no such thing as nobility in Germany and therefore you are noble due to surname laws. We've heard that argument before, and before, and before. I can't quite see anyone being persuaded by it though, however many times you repeat it.
AaronTraas

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Reply with quote  #186 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

You have ignored the fact that the name laws of the Federal Republic of Germany prohibit persons, who lack recent noble ancestry, from using noble surnames.


You've ignored the fact that we don't define nobility the way that the republican German government does.
bator

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Reply with quote  #187 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I'm not opposed to a Hohenzollern restoration in Germany, provided the German nobility isn't restored. I'm opposed to a Capetian restoration in France, because I'm a Bonapartist. I don't support a Bonapartist restoration in France, because the current Bonapartist claimant to the French throne isn't a descendant of Napoleon. Napoleon was the greatest monarch of France. A person, who isn't a descendant of Napoleon, isn't worthy of being the monarch of France. I want France to remain a republic, because no descendant of Napoleon claims the French throne. 


i would of course personally be enthusiastic about restoring the monarchy in germany, regardless if nobility is restored or not. so if you were in power there i would gladly make that compromise with you.
however, you are so proud to be descended from a noble, but you are so hard against restoring nobility that you would rather see germany remain a republic than to see that happen. i think morally then you dont deserve to be recognized as a noble, since you go that clearly against their interest. as for france, you have written all that numerous times before, and i have gotten that a long time ago. rather explain me: you would like a descendent of napoleon the first to take the throne of france, i know. if this cannot happen, how can you then as a true monarchist find it WORSE to have a capetian king or a relative but not descendent of the first napoleon on the throne than to keep france a republic? ??   and why do you have this silly idea that only a direct descendent of napoleon should inherit his throne?? as far as i know there have never been any succession rules like that anywhere, (im sure peter will correct me if im wrong) and certainly not rules saying that if a desendent cannot occupy the throne then there should be a republic?? so why would then suddely YOU as a monarchist think that way? it really makes no sense to me. 

i have myself been corrected by theodore when i told that im a legitimist and therefore in a perfect world would like to see the legitimist pretenders put on the throne everywhere. but that would only be in theory, in a perfect world where all monarchies had been safely restored, and republicanism crushed. otherwise it would be silly and treacherous to campaign for exchanging ruling monarchs by others. that would only weaken the monarchist cause. when you say that you only want monarchy restored if and if..... then you weaken monarchism. we monarchists cannot afford to fight each other, and we cannot afford to be too demanding and saying that if we dont get it exactly the way WE prefer it personally, then we dont want restoration at all. we should not be selfish and only think of our own narrow interests. we cannot afford that. if you really are a true monarchist you should be able to understand that and be pragmatic too. 
Peter

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Reply with quote  #188 
It's not actually unknown for succession to be limited to the descendants of a particular individual. Netherlands succession, for example, is limited to legitimate descendants of Willem I, and British to same of Sophia, Electress of Hanover. In both cases further limitations apply, but descent from the named individual is the starting point. Neither French Empire had any such system. This is what they actually did have. Quite clearly, the present candidates each have a valid claim under either of the succession laws (I say father rather than son, but that question will eventually resolve itself). There is no claim for the actual descendants of NapolĂ©on I, there never has been nor has any of them made one. I knew these things before, but for obvious reasons didn't waste my virtual breath pointing them out.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #189 
Peter, by the way, it wasn't KYmonarchist I had in mind. It was just a strange pattern of behaviour that I hadn't been able to put my finger on, but now I realise may be because of Autism.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #190 
For what it is worth, I don't think our departed member was on the autism spectrum. I want however to acknowledge the courage and also kindness of our three existent members who publicly acknowledged that they were, in the hope of helping the former member if that was indeed the case with him also.
MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #191 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
For what it is worth, I don't think our departed member was on the autism spectrum. I want however to acknowledge the courage and also kindness of our three existent members who publicly acknowledged that they were, in the hope of helping the former member if that was indeed the case with him also.

Thank you Peter.

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