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Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #121 
Azadi is a commoner.
azadi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
Azadi is a commoner.

I have expressed my opinions inaccurately in this thread, because I appear to have claimed to be recognized as a nobleman by the Federal Republic of Germany. The Federal Republic of Germany has abolished the formal status of nobility. I disagree with Peter concerning the informal status of nobility in Germany. Peter claims that only persons, who are noblemen according to the rules, which were abolished in 1919, are entitled to the informal status of nobility. I claim that persons, who are entitled to use former titles of nobility as parts of their names according to the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany, are entitled to the informal status of nobility.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #123 
What does that even mean? Is there even such a thing as the informal status of nobility in Germany today? Also, none of us are Germans, and nor is it clear why we should care about what Germans today think informally.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #124 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
What does that even mean? Is there even such a thing as the informal status of nobility in Germany today? Also, none of us are Germans, and nor is it clear why we should care about what Germans today think informally.

Using a former title of nobility as a part of your name remains prestigious in Germany today. 
If you don't care about what Germans today think about the informal status of nobility, why do you care about the traditional rules of the German nobility, which were abolished in 1919? You claim that I'm a commoner, because I'm not a nobleman according to the traditional rules of the German nobility, while not caring about whether most Germans will consider me a nobleman today.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #125 
Because one is an official status that we can all test and accept; the other is what you claim most Germans today think, even though it explicitly contradicts what was legally the case, then and now. The difference is obvious. And it isn't just me claiming you are a commoner. I don't think anyone else here at this stage thinks you are a nobleman.
VivatReginaScottorum

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Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

Using a former title of nobility as a part of your name remains prestigious in Germany today. 
If you don't care about what Germans today think about the informal status of nobility, why do you care about the traditional rules of the German nobility, which were abolished in 1919? You claim that I'm a commoner, because I'm not a nobleman according to the traditional rules of the German nobility, while not caring about whether most Germans will consider me a nobleman today.

Many people may mistake you for a nobleman due to your use of a noble surname, but that is not just cause to consider yourself nobility when the traditional laws of your country would not afford you such status, the current government of your country doesn't recognise such status at all, and the closest thing to a contemporary authority on who does and does not qualify as German nobility, the Vereinigung der Deutschen Adelsverbände, doesn't consider you to be nobility by your own admission. You are not as special or as important as you want to be, get over it.

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MatthewJTaylor

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Reply with quote  #127 
"All Germans are citizens rather than nobles or commoners today. I won't cease to consider myself a nobleman"

That is a blatant contradiction.
You have asked why you are found to be annoying here Azadi.
This is a very important example.

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azadi

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Reply with quote  #128 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VivatReginaScottorum

Many people may mistake you for a nobleman due to your use of a noble surname, but that is not just cause to consider yourself nobility when the traditional laws of your country would not afford you such status, the current government of your country doesn't recognise such status at all, and the closest thing to a contemporary authority on who does and does not qualify as German nobility, the Vereinigung der Deutschen Adelsverbände, doesn't consider you to be nobility by your own admission. You are not as special or as important as you want to be, get over it.

I claim to be a nobleman on this forum, because agnatic descendants of German noble families are considered noblemen by most members of this forum. The German nobility doesn't exist today. The Vereinigung der Deutschen Adelsverbände isn't recognized by the Federal Republic of Germany. Neither the agnatic descendants of the German noble families nor I are noblemen. We are merely German citizens, who are entitled to use former titles of nobility as parts of our names. German citizens, who lack recent noble ancestry, aren't allowed to use former titles of nobility as parts of their names.
Murtagon

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Reply with quote  #129 
Azadi, if you don't cease with your Doctor Who villain-esque statements, I'm afraid I will have to do something I haven't done before. While the increased forum activity is welcome, what has happened in the last weeks and months has twisted and deformed it.

Let me ask you something: have you been in the Bundeswehr?
AaronTraas

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Reply with quote  #130 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azadi

I admit to being biased against legal privileges of nobility, such as hereditary membership of the British House of Lords, because I'm a cognatic descendant of a German noble family. I'm a staunch opponent of restoring the German nobility as a social class and I'm biased against legal privileges of nobility in foreign countries, such as Britain and Tonga, because I'm a staunch opponent of the German nobility being restored as a social class.


Translation: I don't recognize a system because it would exclude me, so I support diluting the meaning of said system to nothing, so it can include me, because I'm special, and if I can't enjoy these privileges, no one can. 
azadi

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Reply with quote  #131 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewJTaylor
"All Germans are citizens rather than nobles or commoners today. I won't cease to consider myself a nobleman"

That is a blatant contradiction.
You have asked why you are found to be annoying here Azadi.
This is a very important example.

It isn't a contradiction. I'm claiming to be a nobleman on this forum, because agnatic descendants of German noble families are considered noblemen by most members of this forum.
I will cease to claim to be a nobleman on this forum, if most members of this forum will recognize the fact that agnatic descendants of German noble families aren't noblemen today.
I'm not a nobleman. I'm a German citizen, who is entitled to use a noble surname according to the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany. The agnatic descendants of German noble families aren't noblemen. They are German citizens, who are entitled to use noble surnames according to the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany.
German citizens, who lack recent noble ancestry, fortunately aren't allowed to use noble surnames.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #132 
How about you stop posting repetitive nonsense, as you promised to do. No one here buys your contradictory claims and special pleading, so knock it off.
azadi

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
How about you stop posting repetitive nonsense, as you promised to do. No one here buys your contradictory claims and special pleading, so knock it off.

It isn't contradictory nonsense. I'm not a nobleman, but the agnatic descendants of German noble families aren't noblemen either. The German nobility was abolished by a legitimate government in 1919. The German National Assembly, which enacted the Weimar Constitution, was democratically elected. Claiming that I'm a commoner, while the agnatic descendants of German noble families are noblemen, is contradictory nonsense, because neither the agnatic descendants of German noble families nor I are noblemen, and both the agnatic descendants of German noble families and I are entitled to use noble surnames according to the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany, unlike Germans, who lack recent noble ancestry.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #134 
Blah, blah, blah.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #135 
We recognise people as noble who derive their nobility from the rules prevailing in the last German jurisdiction(s) that recognised and regulated nobility. You have been very offended (allegedly) because no one here will recognise your claim to be noble, which you somehow derive from the rules regulating surnames in successor jurisdictions which have abolished nobility altogether. You are now kindly offering to stop promoting your preposterous claim and absurd reasoning if we will abandon our entirely sensible and reasoned views. How can I best put this? Ah yes. Fick Dich und das Pferd, auf dem Du her geritten bist.
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