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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #16 
The flag belonged to the British East India Company.   Americans would have been familiar with the flag, which was borne on the ships bringing tea and other goods from the Orient.   The flag became the inspiration for the stars and stripes.  

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Peter

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Reply with quote  #17 
The particular flag you showed was to be precise the post-1800 flag of the East India Company, as it shows the Cross of St Patrick. The Grand Union Flag, which is considered the first official flag of the United States and I imagine is what SD has, had a similar design to the previous East India Company flag with no red diagonal cross, in fact identical to some versions of it.

The number and order of the stripes varied with the Company flag, whereas the Grand Union Flag as commonly represented had 13 for the 13 colonies, and alternated red and white rather than white and red as the Company flag sometimes did. I say as commonly represented because there is in fact a great deal of debate and a paucity of evidence about the exact design.

It had been adopted with the early stirrings of rebellion, before it became overt, and the belief is that it was meant to show the colonies united and free under the Crown, general agreement not having been reached on an entire repudiation of loyalty. Being already in use as a symbol of the colonies it was, in whatever precise design or designs, used by the rebels in the earlier stages of the actual revolt, British flag in the canton and all. Anyway it was not a Loyalist flag but rather the reverse, sorry SD.


SupremeDirectorII

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Reply with quote  #18 

Huh, well I'm glad I was finally told the truth about it! Someone needs to inform the Loyalists in Virgina that their using a flag that says the opposite of what they want to say! Thanks for setting me straight on that Peter! If you have any other information on the different flags the Empire used, I'd love to see it. I read "To Rule The Waves", which is about 900 pages about the history and development of the Empire and the Royal Navy, but its descriptions of the various flags is unfortunatly the weakest part of an otherwise exceptional book that I would highly recommend.

amharican

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Reply with quote  #19 


i kinda like this flag


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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #20 

Why break the crosses of St. Patrick and St. Andrew for some fake constillation?


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SupremeDirectorII

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Reply with quote  #21 

I like it, it shows the 50 states united under British rule. Its simple and get the point across very strongly, so even people who are not familiar with loyalism would know what it implies upon seeing it for the first time.

BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #22 

Wouldn't you get the same 'easy to understand' impact if the whole of the blue had the stars (not just the canton), and the crosses were left unbroken?


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SupremeDirectorII

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Reply with quote  #23 

Never considered having the crosses superimposed on a background of stars. That would also work very well, although some might construe that as each star being a different territory of the Commonwealth, with the Queen as the common union. Both would work very well, but I think he made it with the crosses broken because it is a format (the stars in the top left) that people are familiar associating with the USA.

amharican

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Reply with quote  #24 
               

Quote:
Wouldn't you get the same 'easy to understand' impact if the whole of the blue had the stars (not just the canton), and the crosses were left unbroken?


that is an interseting idea...i will try and work something up...thanks


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amharican

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
but I think he made it with the crosses broken because it is a format (the stars in the top left) that people are familiar associating with the USA.


exactly, but i am not married to the idea...i thought of just adopting the British flag but i want to get across the idea of an American Monarchism

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Finnrau

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Reply with quote  #26 
What about this flag?



I am reminded of a quote of Sherlock Holmes:

"It is always a joy to me to meet an American, for I am one of those who believe that the folly of a monarch and the blundering of a minister in far-gone years will not prevent our children from being some day citizens of the same worldwide country under a flag which shall be a quartering of the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes."
  .
Bchan

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by USRestorationist97
Do any of you retain any loyalty to the British Crown?


While I admire the sentiment, I personally have no loyalty to the House of Windsor or the British Crown. Although I respect HME2R and admire her personally, I do not recognize the legitimacy of the de facto British monarchy, which ultimately derives its status from the regicide of HM Charles I by the Protestant military dictatorship in 1649 and from the usurpation of the legitimate Stuart monarchy of HM James II (James VII of Scotland) by his daughter Mary II and her husband, the Dutch pretender William III of Orange in September of 1651.

I recognize HRH Franz, Herzog von Bayern (the Duke of Bavaria) as the rightful ruler of England, Scotland, France and Ireland. While HRH Franz does not advance his claim, he's still the heir to the Stuart line, and thus de jure King of England (HM Francis II) — and, therefore, King of the former British dominions in America as well!

Please note: As I am from Texas, and as this land was never ruled by any English king, my personal allegiance would therefore be to either the Spanish Empire or the Mexican Empire as the last legitimate government of Texas. This would entail loyalty to either the King of Spain (currently HM Juan Carlos I) or the pretender to the imperial throne of Mexico (currently HIM Don Maximiliano de Götzen-Iturbide) as my rightful sovereign.

Unfortunately, I haven't really studied the question of who truly "owns" Texas, so I don't have an opinion — or a loyalty — to either as of right now. Sorry!



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Peter

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Reply with quote  #28 
Many counters to your statement are possible. I will not advance them, as it is against the rules (which you might try reading) here to question the legitimacy of any currently reigning European sovereign. We are monarchists, you see. I kind of skirted round the rules in a post yesterday, not because I am a Jacobite which I absolutely am not, but linking to a Jacobite view, which nevertheless did not directly deny the Queen's sovereignty. But then, I knew the rules and knew what I was doing. You don't, and ought to.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #29 
HM King James II abandoned his Crown, and his Country and Fled to France (of all places, France!).  His abdication was duly and properly recognized by Parliament, (in all the Realms then existing under the Crown) the Pope (which negates the appeal to an RC 'counter history'), and the rest of the world (which, makes the claim at least as valid of that of HM William I, from whom the Queen, and the 'non pretending pretender' descend).



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Bchan

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
...[I]t is against the rules (which you might try reading) here to question the legitimacy of any currently reigning European sovereign.


I don't question the legitimacy of Queen Elizabeth II per se; you'll notice that I referred to her as the de facto Queen of England and used her royal style (HME2R) in my post. I do not advocate her abdication, nor do I support her ouster.

I do hold the opinion that HRH Franz von Bayern is de jure Francis II, King of England, by right of succession from HM Charles II.

If the expression of this opinion in this forum is a violation of its rules (which I did read), I apologize. In future, I will avoid discussion of the Jacobite cause.

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