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Mars

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Hello Gentlemen! I assume by now you all know me to some degree. Perhaps you know me for being the only man on the forum to approve of George Washington, perhaps you know me for refusing to acknowledge Queen HM Elizabeth II as the rightful claimant to the throne of the Thirteen Colonies, or perhaps for my most infamous act: Putting apostrophes where don't belong (but it won't stop me, Peter). This thread however, has little to do with any of those things.

In this thread, I'd like to discuss some ideas about American Monarchism. Some of which I see have been discussed before (many times), others I see which have not.

Now, most of you seem to hold the idea that if there were to be a Monarch in any part of America, it would be HM Queen Elizabeth II. I am someone who thinks the time for that has passed. The reasons being:

1. Her role is now as a Constitutional Monarch, whose job is to be a cultural link to her people and their past. Surprisingly enough: Great Britain is no longer anything like the U.S. She would serve no real purpose over here.

2. It has been more than 200 years since the fall of British Royalty in the states. New dynasties are easier to make than old ones are to restore. That's why the Nazis don't call themselves the "Nazis" anymore.

3. She has enough duties as it is and America would more than triple them. It would be difficult to manage.

4. She belongs to the wonderful people of Great Britain. She is their Queen. Not ours. They shouldn't have to share her with those they've long separated from.

I hope that didn't come off as needlessly attacking anyone or their beliefs. Its just my opinion. Keep fighting for what you're fighting for. I don't think of any of you as my enemy. (No, not even you Baron.)

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, here are some things I think should be discussed.

1. Which state do you believe is most sympathetic to the Monarchist cause?

2. Where are our (am I one too now?) numbers strongest.

3. How should American Monarchists present themselves?

4. I know how to persuade, organize, and lead. What sort of people do we want to attract? What is our demographic?

We'd have to start at town level. This however, would not be impossible. I think if we start off small, organize, plan where we "strike", and are convincing enough it could be pulled off. I know this seems highly unlikely, if not impossible, but surely it is worth at least being discussed in detail. I mean, for all the cries of "It'll never happen", has anyone ever even tried formulating a coherent plan?


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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
Hello Gentlemen! I assume by now you all know me to some degree. Perhaps you know me for being the only man on the forum to approve of George Washington, perhaps you know me for refusing to acknowledge Queen HM Elizabeth II as the rightful claimant to the throne of the Thirteen Colonies, or perhaps for my most infamous act: Putting apostrophes where don't belong (but it won't stop me, Peter). This thread however, has little to do with any of those things.

In this thread, I'd like to discuss some ideas about American Monarchism. Some of which I see have been discussed before (many times), others I see which have not.

Now, most of you seem to hold the idea that if there were to be a Monarch in any part of America, it would be HM Queen Elizabeth II. I am someone who thinks the time for that has passed. The reasons being:

1. Her role is now as a Constitutional Monarch, whose job is to be a cultural link to her people and their past. Surprisingly enough: Great Britain is no longer anything like the U.S. She would serve no real purpose over here.

Presumes limitations not in evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

2. It has been more than 200 years since the fall of British Royalty in the states.

The Statement is False.
The Floridas retained a Monarch through 1819. 
The Kingdom of Hawai'i lasted until about the same time. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

New dynasties are easier to make than old ones are to restore.

Tell that to Cromwell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

That's why the Nazis don't call themselves the "Nazis" anymore.

That subject is not related to the discussion at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

3. She has enough duties as it is and America would more than triple them. It would be difficult to manage.

They're Called Governors General.
Every Realm save the Original has one, some have Lt. Governors at the 'provincial level'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

4. She belongs to the wonderful people of Great Britain. She is their Queen. Not ours.

She is our Queen AND theirs.
Learning to share is something you should have been taught before the age of five.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

They shouldn't have to share her with those they've long separated from.

She's Queen.
It comes with the Title.
She understands that.
Her Subjects need to do so as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

I hope that didn't come off as needlessly attacking anyone or their beliefs. Its just my opinion.

Actually,
You're entitled to your own opinion.
You're not entitled to your own facts.
Learn a bit of history.  It'll help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

Keep fighting for what you're fighting for. I don't think of any of you as my enemy. (No, not even you Baron.)

We're not fighters.
Seen the results of too many wars.
We'll stick to lawful means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, here are some things I think should be discussed.

1. Which state do you believe is most sympathetic to the Monarchist cause?

Hawaii.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

2. Where are our (am I one too now?) numbers strongest.

Not strong enough anywhere.  Too many, like you, have been brainwashed, and unfortunately aren't able to break those chains as you appear to be doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars


3. How should American Monarchists present themselves?

To all men as all things, save armed rebellion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

4. I know how to persuade, organize, and lead. What sort of people do we want to attract? What is our demographic?

All of the people.
Attracting those who actually think might be easier on some points, those who are emotionally lead on others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

We'd have to start at town level. This however, would not be impossible. I think if we start off small, organize, plan where we "strike", and are convincing enough it could be pulled off. I know this seems highly unlikely, if not impossible, but surely it is worth at least being discussed in detail. I mean, for all the cries of "It'll never happen", has anyone ever even tried formulating a coherent plan?


Yeah,
Not adverse to trying another one though.

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Inquisitor_Galloglasses

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Reply with quote  #3 
Welcome to the discussion Mars!

Mind the landmines.


...Whoops too late.

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Mars says:
He seems angsty
WHY IS EVERYONE YOU KNOW ANGSTY?
MEET HAPPY PEOPLE
DANCE AND SING
FROLLIC
Tolgron

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers
The Floridas retained a Monarch through 1819. 
The Kingdom of Hawai'i lasted until about the same time. 


At risk of nitpicking, or even worse being completely mistaken or missing the point, but I was under the impression that Florida returned to Spanish control after the Revolution, and then sold to the Americans at a later date. Similarly, Hawai'i was its own sovereign Kingdom until its (in my mind illegal) occupation and annexation by the US government.

In both cases, the territories in question were reigned under different dynasties and governments. So Mars is still technically correct, it has been 200 years since any part of the modern United States has seen a British monarchy, barring any territorial adjustments with Canada that had taken place since the War of 1812.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #5 
The first two are examples of the British Royalty NOT falling (Hawaii having its own, and in Florida transferring authority).

The third (Oregon Territory) I some how managed to leave out.  There the British Didn't 'fall' but withdrew - in like 1848 or so....
My Bad.

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Neville

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Reply with quote  #6 

Quote:
4. She belongs to the wonderful people of Great Britain. She is their Queen. Not ours. They shouldn't have to share her with those they've long separated from.


Well, not quite.  There are 15 other realms, each of which has separated from Great Britain, for whom the Queen is very much their Queen.


 

royalcello

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Reply with quote  #7 
(sigh)  As I've explained many times, I'm really not interested in promoting monarchy for the United States as such.  I'm interested in promoting monarchy in countries that have authentic monarchical traditions of their own.
Inquisitor_Galloglasses

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Reply with quote  #8 
Still, no sense at not taking a stab at the impossible.

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Mars says:
He seems angsty
WHY IS EVERYONE YOU KNOW ANGSTY?
MEET HAPPY PEOPLE
DANCE AND SING
FROLLIC
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neville

Quote:
4. She belongs to the wonderful people of Great Britain. She is their Queen. Not ours. They shouldn't have to share her with those they've long separated from.


Well, not quite.  There are 15 other realms, each of which has separated from Great Britain, for whom the Queen is very much their Queen.


 


Thank you, Sir! God save the Queen of Australia, Canada and her other fourteen Realms!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
ROO86

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neville

Quote:
4. She belongs to the wonderful people of Great Britain. She is their Queen. Not ours. They shouldn't have to share her with those they've long separated from.


Well, not quite.  There are 15 other realms, each of which has separated from Great Britain, for whom the Queen is very much their Queen.


 


Thank you, Sir! God save the Queen of Australia, Canada and her other fourteen Realms!



Hear hear!
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #11 

I'm one of this monarchist group who feels that monarchy is not suited for those lands where there is no history of it.  The United States and Switzerland are better off as republics in my view since that is what they have always been since they came into existence.  The United States is a successor state to some British colonies, but areas of the country have been reigned over even more recently by Kings of France, Spain, Hawaii and the Emperor of all the Russias until well into the 1800s.  The United States itself however as an entity has no history of monarchy and the very concept of this country is not suited to a monarchial ideal.  If the U.S. were to break up (extremely unlikely and a highly undesirable event in my view), then possibly there might be an argument for monarchies to emerge. I'm not a fan of starting a psudo-monarchist movement for some new dynasty here in the United States at all. 


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clark

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Reply with quote  #12 
Personally, I would like the USA to simply become a commonwealth nation like Canada and have Queen Elizabeth be proclaimed as head of state. The president would be given some new title, and little change would be necessary to the constitution to allow it. Now is this feasible, nope. Not in the least, so I don't think pursuing it is worth the time.
MarineMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #13 
Am I the only one who thinks the revolution is near?The republic, noble as it is, is dying.

I detect Rome syndrome here people.


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Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?
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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #14 
Friend, are you a US marine?

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Mars

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Friend, are you a US marine?


*Turns on sarcasm*

Nope, Ponocrates, I don't think he is. He is clearly a member of the British Royal Air Force, probably a labor party member, and is almost certainly an anti-war protester!

Most likely of French descent.

*Sarcasm, off*

That joke aside, I am glad people still have interest in American Monarchism, especially someone in my favorite branch of service, but I am not exactly proud of this thread and make a specific apology to Baron...

One more edit:
Quote:
Am I the only one who thinks the revolution is near?


Oh no, or lord no, you are not the only one.

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I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded, what others do only from fear of the law - Aristotle
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